Block first timers from Party Finder!

[Ercapote]

Great suggestions that could lead to... elitist community.

I can't shake off the feeling that after the initial period of helping others the sheer amount of work it puts on few individuals would eventually result in white listing and that would prevent even more new players from learning the game.

"Are you on the list? No. Well sorry we can't help you, but if you get refferenced by another member of our society we might give you a shot. Of course if you fail your friend will be kicked, so tread lightly..."

It looks great on the paper, but help from the top can't last long without players helping themselves from the bottom.

so true I feel bad I can't hit the like bottom more... some people forget we all started as noob with no one to carry our hands.

[WingsOfNth]

My points have nothing to do with elitism. Hell I don't even raid that much anymore simply because I don't find it fun and choose to focus more on completionist stuff atm like minion collecting. Obviously it's implied that not only should end game players help newbs but newbs should help themselves. That goes with out saying. Your type of thinking is why people just stick to there crowds of friends and ignore the outside player base letting the game die. I can pick up a shitty no name mmo that I used to play and still find the game thriving with it's own establish player base because it's filled with intelligent people who understand how to groom a society towards making sure everyone is having fun, and yes an mmo player base is a society. It's millions of people gaming together in a world created by the devs. It also takes almost no effort to teach someone how to play FFXIV. With the game devs still learning what works and what does not FFXIV is one of the easiest MMO's out there. I've seen people learn Ravana EX after 1 video and 4 wipes with half the players being new

[WingsOfNth]

And about the comment about me being in my mothers basement? I work full time with a boyfriend and social life and still find time to help my fellow man in the game while keeping part of the world/server first race with end game raiding and I know tons of casual people who don't raid who do the exact same thing. It all comes down to you being lazy and selfish and out to only help yourself (Which in 3-6 years from now if you're still playing will only come back to bite you in the ass) If someone who works, cares for another, and lives a vibrant social life outside of the game can help people while still being end game and getting everything I want done, done. Then someone who really is a basement dweller can help a million times more.

[WingsOfNth]

I would also like to point out as evident in MMORPG's like WoW. The alienation of new players is what kills MMO's. You should be thinking further ahead then what loot might drop from the monster you're killing

[Ercapote]

AGAIN, we are not all you

m8 at no point in my comment I mention you as the person living on mommy's basement, If you felt offended by it that's your business.


quick been so full of yourself for one, I've as much as you have helped, tons load of fellow members of this community to beat fights and patches, even went above and beyond as to easy some of the fight as solo tank/heal to allow a extra DPS in a party, and WHEN I'M HELPING them is when I CHOOSE to spend MY time to do THAT, NOW! when I CHOOSE MY time to PROGRESS then that's when I WONT CARRY NO ONES TO WASTE THAT TIME. again we are not all you, ho! you good for you to work full time and socialize and find time... I do also work full time, from 8am to 5pm and have to go to my university from 5:15pm to 1am + studies +work projects + girlfriend + 5 days a week living me weekends to probably attend to more bussines stuff, more work project and be human a little with family and friends, leaven probably just a few hours on sundays and or choosing between sleep or game, which most of the time consist on running some roulette and or lvling some classes.... so YEAH! quick putting yourself as the general example as if anyone lives like you do, and again. I've help the community as well... but if I'M ON A FARM PT IS TO FARM NOT TO CARRY AND WASTE TIME. nothing greedy aboutit. in fact is more greedy to take advange of people like me to get your win get out and possibly steal your loot.


btw quick note, you can edit your last post to avoid the character limit of your post.

[WingsOfNth]

TLDR; If end game farming is easy then the MMO has failed. End game clears take time and effort. The is why there is also casual content for the people who don't have a lot of spare time.

Farming end game content is meant to be hard. You're meant to hit your head against a wall. If you just want to drift along and enjoy the game. End game content is not for you. There is a reason we have casual, hardcore, and in between content. There is a reason why there has NEVER been a successful mmo that had an endgame that could be cleared by the worst of players. If you had a filter so only clears could join you been in the PF for 6-7 hours anyway. Most people get there items and stuff. Only a small group of people farm for tons of items. So suck it up, let the noob in, and hit you head against the wall for a clear.

Once you've done that. Farm away. Or you know, you can wait 8 hours for a full party of people you have to filter through weather or not they Have cleared it already, would like to clear it again, are willing to wait for a PF to fill up, have all the right stuff downloaded for VOIP or sit through the entire Party Chat explanation of how this group will do the fight. You can head into your end game farm. Oh that is if no one left while you were screening people through all of those filters. While I'll have spent that same amount of time teaching someone the fight and we'll have gotten our clear around the same time but you will come out with loot and I'll come out with loot and another person on my FL who can clear end game content.

The only difference is if you had it your way you would spend HOURS finding people who met all the requirements and I'll have spend the same amount (Maybe less) teaching someone. We'll both have our clears, but you'll have aliened people and maybe caused someone to quit because they can't find a learning party and no one will help them.

Ps: thanks for the tip, it's really helpful, and I thought the basement comment was passively implied rather then flat out accused. Sorry for the mistake.

[Ercapote]

here we go again.

end game is not for me ? says who? you? who are you?
that's a really poor statement, end game is there for everyone and if I can do it, anyone capable to reach till that point is capable too, I already had my shares of hitting myself against the wall, I beat the content, and to progress I get along the players who also overcame the fight and can farm the gear, which actually requires time since you are not guaranteed to get your desired loot from them. what you consider "casual" I consider "boring" and it's not what I come to this game for, if all i wanted is casual content i wouldn't be farming I'll stick to ESO gear one EXPERT a week and good, BUT I like the challenge I like the farm, I like to work hard and seen the effort pay off. Just because you are on a farm PT doesn't mean you will have a easy run, you still required to put all of yourself in to to ensure the fight goes smoothly, the only thing you ensure is a locked loot, so when it actually drop you can get it, and that people wont be killing the party wasting time and time again on silly stuff...

and my friend if I'm greedy for wanting a farm PT to farm my gear I don't know what you are with a static, you should go for your own words drop your static, and help people on your own if that's is so much what you wanted, hit yourself on that wall instead of carring people around, make learn pt, and go into SAVAGE ALEXANDER without your designated group so each day you will be helping new people....we both know you won't do that, because at the end of the day that's not hhow this works, the only way to progress is with designated people you can rely on, if you plan on every single day run with noobs half of our community will still be on titan.

TLDR;
Once you've done that. Farm away. Or you know, you can wait 8 hours for a full party of people you have to filter through weather or not they Have cleared it already, would like to clear it again, are willing to wait for a PF to fill up, have all the right stuff downloaded for VOIP or sit through the entire Party Chat explanation of how this group will do the fight. You can head into your end game farm. Oh that is if no one left while you were screening people through all of those filters. While I'll have spent that same amount of time teaching someone the fight and we'll have gotten our clear around the same time but you will come out with loot and I'll come out with loot and another person on my FL who can clear end game content.

The only difference is if you had it your way you would spend HOURS finding people who met all the requirements and I'll have spend the same amount (Maybe less) teaching someone. We'll both have our clears, but you'll have aliened people and maybe caused someone to quit because they can't find a learning party and no one will help them.

edit: that's a factor the neither you and I can prove so it's a mistake to put it as a fact, with that filter it might just get people quicker and those PT more successful and secured ensuring a fast and smooth clear, making it faster to get done it with and have a good experience, that taking your own words, some of us might find really upsetting people taking advantage of us and end up getting frustrated with the community causing them to quit. And at the same time, you might help people to clear or you migh find yourself hitting yourself on the same wall over and over and over again, with no progress that day, and if you actually helped people you should know this is the standar with new players, because they aswell get tired and frustrated of wiping and wiping and end up giving that infamous sentence " this is my last one" and as soon as one leaves, then goes another one and another one, end up with probably 1 or 2 or porbably none since they see the PT went away and they know it will take more time to reform the party and end up with new people to teach and repeat all the procress again on an endless loop of WASTED TIME....

PS: no problem I understand the nature of my post migh seem a little on the offensive way rather than discussing, and also glad to help.

[Ercapote]

little bump!

[Noxifer]

Farming end game content is meant to be hard. You're meant to hit your head against a wall.

Um.... No. "Farming" implies in itself that you've mastered the content in question to the point where you can go in and one-shot it, or at least down it with just one wipe in case of accidents (since they happen now and then, even when you've done something dozens of times).
Yes, clearing/downing end-game content is meant to be hard. Learning the content (after clearing it) to the point where you have it on farm takes time. But a farm party implies that the people in there actually know the content. It's not really for the people who cleared it once and are still amazed that it happened. A farm party's main target group is the people who have cleared the content multiple times, and who can go in with the expectation to clear it every time -- provided the rest of the group is at the same level. It's intended for multiple, quick runs, to get loot for as many people as possible.

True, some people who join -- who have cleared the content -- are still not at that level, and people who have bought a clear while lying dead or sitting outside the arena wouldn't set off the "bonus run" message. And even with this kind of system in place, they'd be able to get into the farm party, but why would it be really bad to bar new people from joining?

Personally, I would see it as a good thing. It would mean that there would be more practice- and clear parties, since the people sneaking into farm parties wouldn't be able to do that and would have to make their own (or wait for someone else to do it). It would mean that said practice and clear parties would in all probability fill up faster. And it would mean that the people in those practice and clear parties would learn the content more in-depth than they would by being carried, and once they had their clear, they'd get to 'I have it on farm' a lot quicker than if they were carried. Sure, the entire process would take longer, due to the beating-your-head-against-the-wall, but... I can't say I don't see that as being fair, and that's with me being late to end-game content, barely having started second coil by the time final coil came out, and I still haven't set foot in Alex Savage, nor beaten final coil (since it's a side-project in my FC/static).

I don't agree that it would take hours to fill a farm party, if the people joining it could be assured that there'd be no first-timers sneaking in there -- it's one thing that has sometimes kept me away from joining -- but to be honest, I'd rather it took longer to fill the party than fill it up relatively quickly only to get in and realize at least someone is trying to get a ninja clear.

And like people have said, they have sometimes said, "Fine, you can stay, we'll teach you the fight." Only to have the newcomer afterwards say, "Thanks for the clear, I'm out!" instead of staying for those multiple runs that the PF listing indicated.

[WingsOfNth]

TLDR; If you want place where only good people join your game then hop onto a Japanese server. Beacuse the chances of a filter being added are slim to none with Yoshi P in charge and a lot of Westerners are to selfish to want to try and change how the community views things.

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On your first point. Yoshi P himself as said endgame is not for people who don't have the free time to clear it. I brought that up because you've mentioned twice now about how little free time you have in a day like it was a soapbox to stand on. If you are good enough of a player to clear endgame content in what you consider to be an incredibly small about on free time in a day then congratulations. Saying it's for everyone is just incorrect. One of the largest selling points of an MMO is that there is something for everyone. Someone people dungeons with a fucking passion. But they play the MMO because they love crafting and PvP. I know people who are on A4 last phase and don't have a crafter leveled past 1 and have not even unlocked the Gold Saucer. My boyfriend literally only plays this game because of the glamour system. End game is not meant for him.

The main point was this conversation was about noobs ruining end game for a few people. I think we can all agree that the people who just flat out lie are scum bags. Every community be it game or otherwise for as long as people have socialized have come across a scum bag or an asshole. It's a constant that will never change. But when it comes to MMO's you'll be playing with noobs. The reason noobs go into farms is because even if they know 100% of the fight people won't take them and that is one of the biggest problems about the NA community.

You talk about time. Well it's more cost effective to help someone learn the fight then spend hours waiting for people who have a clear, want to farm an item, and are okay doing it with randoms. With a filter like you and the OP talk about what happens to the players who know the fight 100% but don't have a clear because of bad parties? What if I feel like clearing A4 again with an alt but I can't do it with a static because of loot lock outs. Or want to clear Ravana on hours I don't normally play. Should I be locked out because a filter thinks I've never cleared it? All a filter like the does is kill the game

What you're asking for is the ability to spend 5 hours on your ass waiting for a party to fill up as apposed to spending 3 hours teaching someone the fight can clearing. You can twist and twine the word every which way but it comes down to being lazy and content that is meant to be hard and frustration to be made easier.

A quote from Yoshi P himself pertaining to the EX Primal on release was "It won't be easy. Most people might need a static or group of friends to tackle the content with" and he said something similar bout Alex Savage. Just because you pay for the game does not mean the entire game has to be geared towards you and your style. That's the nature of an MMO. If you want an online game that plays like a single player. You should buy Warframe. Or if it HAS to be an MMORPG then try ESO. The endgame can be done with no effort at all.

It's honestly doesn't matter because Yoshi is on my side. Him as other panelists representing the FFXIV dev team have flat out told people they will not add filters that split up the community anymore then daily roulette's already do so this thread is on deaf ears from the start. The real problem here is people who think it's a good idea to split the community who think having an (For lake of better term) Upper class, middle class, and the poor system is a good idea when it comes to end game raiding. If you want farms then make a static. The reason it works so well on the Japanese server is because they are doing exactly what I talk about. It's just a fault of our own that when it comes to video game a large majority of westerner are terribly selfish people who don't think about the bigger picture.