Which tank generates more hate/aggro?

[Sapphic]

The one who keeps losing hate on mobs and wiping the party :P

[SuddenStorm8]

Reading through this I'm a little surprised by the answers, I would have imagined that it would be WAR because Berserk + Unchained + Internal Release then Butchers Block a couple times generates insane enmity and I would think a DRK spamming Power Slash will find themselves out of MP and out of Darkside before even their Dark Arts Power Slashes would overcome the WARs aggro, and I wouldn't necessarily count PLD out either as DRK needs to use their MP regen combo occasionally and a good WAR will be using Storms Eye to help generate aggro from the Slashing resistance down debuff and attack up where as a PLD generating aggro never needs to use anything other than Rage of Halone.
Having said that I still think a WAR will out aggro the other 2

AOE is a little more interesting tho. In particularly big pulls a WARs Overpower may be unable to hit all the enemies and Steel Cyclone is locked behind their Wrath mechanic. Which makes it a race between PLD and DRK in AOE, PLD has enhanced Flash and the Circle of Scorn DOT on a very short CD, where as DRK has Unleash, Dark Passenger and Salted Earth. Dark Passenger suffers from the same issue as Overpower in particularly large pulls where the mobs surround you so they can attack you, Salted earth is a Fire arrow like DOT I believe and Unleash is Flash with a damage dealing mechanic.
In an AOE aggro war between the two of them I believe it would be which ones MP holds out longer and Im not sure who that would be as DRK has Blood Price but is constantly losing MP to Darkside and Dark Passenger has an MP cost despite being a cooldown while a PLD can use Circle of Scorn without losing MP but has no way of reneging MP without switching to a single target for riot blade and I read somewhere that Flash generates more enmity than Unleash but that could be wrong

[Krylo]

I'd guess War would spike out to the top early, Dark would pull off War after awhile, and Pld would just kinda go sit in the corner and be sad.

[Gamer3427]

Depends on the length of the fight as well as certain variables. While I would say that DRK would hold aggro the best for the majority, as others have said, WAR would have the best burst generation, so in a shorter fight it would be superior. Also, does the DRK have full MP and Grit and Darkside active before the fight begins, or do they have to activate them when the fight starts, which drains a hefty chunk of MP? For DRK, MP maintenance is particularly necessary to maintain aggro, which can lead to downtime on generation. Ultimately the result would probably amount to the WAR having the starting advantage, with the DRK pulling in a mid length run, followed by WAR and DRK switching between the two back and forth as WAR's burst capabilities come back and the DRK has to do MP maintenance, only for them to return to the previous after the DRK's MP is back up and the WAR's burst is over.....

I can only really speak in regards to these two as I have personally only played Tank a little, and most of that as a DRK. I've also seen very few PLD in post 50 content, so I can't speak greatly on their capabilities in terms of aggro control. It also doesn't help that the most recent PLD I saw was in a Garuda EX DF run, and he didn't even know what Shield Oath was, so I haven't had too many chances to run with particularly good ones.....

While we are talking purely on aggro generation here, I would like to point out that out of the three tank classes, I personally consider the WAR to be the weakest actual "tank" of the three. I've healed all three in higher level content, and I've never once had issues keeping PLDs and DRKs alive in big pulls or long fights, but WARs tend to have defenses akin to paper since most players prioritize pure STR builds to maximize their DPS with WAR. This is fine if you have a perfect group, but if you can't just AoE heal whatever damage the rest of the party takes, it can be a risk at times to stop healing a WAR to keep someone else alive. Just a side thought on the matter, and off topic I know......

[Adire]

While we are talking purely on aggro generation here, I would like to point out that out of the three tank classes, I personally consider the WAR to be the weakest actual "tank" of the three. I've healed all three in higher level content, and I've never once had issues keeping PLDs and DRKs alive in big pulls or long fights, but WARs tend to have defenses akin to paper since most players prioritize pure STR builds to maximize their DPS with WAR.

WARs do have fewer on demand defensive cooldowns, but the most consistent mitigation skill (inner beast) that WAR's have is easy to save and/or work in if extra mitigation is needed. I say most consistent because as long as you have 5 stacks in Defiance, you can use it whenever you want or need to, no cooldown timer is on it. And if push comes to shove, you can extend it to effectively 10 seconds on demand with Infuriate. Inner Beast is also a hefty self heal, especially if STR specced.

Defiance's HP boost and healing received boost make its passive (indirect) mitigation technically on par with the others though. Add Storm's Path onto that, and you get extra, direct mitigation. If it's needed, WARs can put it up. It's particularly effective on bosses.

A STR specced Warrior will actually suffer less than the other tanks too, due to WAR's inherent higher HP. More STR also means bigger self heals for WAR, which is really better than just having more HP alone.

The only time WARs are super squishy is when they're in Deliverance, which typically isn't for long, and if a WAR can afford to do so, is when one or more cds should be popped.

WAR's don't have less mitigation, their passive mitigation is just indirect and their cooldowns are just more important to use correctly. WAR's just can't sit back and do nothing defense wise as easily as a PLD can. But their potential mitigation is on par, and as I said, their passive mitigation is just indirect and not as noticeable for a healer. It's just easier to get nervous faster with a WAR due to their health dropping faster. But the 20% healing boost is there.

I actually get more nervous healing DRKs than I do WARs.

[Gamer3427]

I actually get more nervous healing DRKs than I do WARs.

That seems to be the case for some people, but I've never had any issues with DRKs. Meanwhile, post 50, every WAR I play with is particularly difficult to keep alive. I guess it's just bad luck in regards to players of that class on my datacenter?

[RyuRoots]

That seems to be the case for some people, but I've never had any issues with DRKs. Meanwhile, post 50, every WAR I play with is particularly difficult to keep alive. I guess it's just bad luck in regards to players of that class on my datacenter?

It's not just you. I could put in single digits the number of Warriors I've healed that didn't feel like they were made of wet tissue paper.

All of them will pull enough enmity, but WAR will do the highest dps.

Which is the only concern 99% of Warriors seem to have, even in single tank content.

[Adire]

That seems to be the case for some people, but I've never had any issues with DRKs. Meanwhile, post 50, every WAR I play with is particularly difficult to keep alive. I guess it's just bad luck in regards to players of that class on my datacenter?

That's possible. Healing a WAR in Deliverance can be particularly dicey, especially if they switch at a bad time.

The thing with WAR is, it's all about balancing DPS and mitigation. The only "free" cooldowns WAR has are Convalescence, Foresight (which sucks), Vengeance, Thrill of Battle, Awareness (if said WAR takes that, and it's really good to have with Raw Intuition for trash since you'll likely take crits without it), and Raw Intuition. Edit: Forgot Bloodbath

The rest of WAR's mitigation all comes from trading damage (or TP in Equilibrium's case) off for it. I.e. keeping up Storm's Path instead of Storm's Eye, using Inner Beast instead of Fel Cleave, etc.

A perfectly played WAR will maximize damage when the damage they're taking is at a minimum, and maximize mitigation when damage being taken is high.

The good thing is, it doesn't take a WAR long to dish out huge damage before they can switch back to Defiance. And stance dancing doesn't break combos or use a GCD.. So if a WAR does choose to stance dance to dish out that damage, they can do it quickly without being super squishy for long. Me for example, I pop at least one "free" cooldown (usually Bloodbath or more, like Vengeance) while I'm in Deliverance, so that reduces the squishiness problem a bit.

That's probably another reason you see Paladins being noticeably easier to heal. Most don't bother stance dancing since it's so clunky and they can't do good long term damage without staying in sword oath.

So most end up staying in Shield Oath, which will obviously make them easier to heal than a stance dancing Warrior, especially if the Warrior doesn't do it correctly. But done correctly, the time they're in Deliverance won't be long or cause too much stress. And the extra damage will be nice!

[SuddenStorm8]

That seems to be the case for some people, but I've never had any issues with DRKs. Meanwhile, post 50, every WAR I play with is particularly difficult to keep alive. I guess it's just bad luck in regards to players of that class on my datacenter?

I get the WARs who pop Raw Intuition on trash pulls then dance around to dodge AOEs leading them to take an enormous number of CRITs from mobs or who are constantly swapping to Deliverance fluctuating their max HP.
I know Fell Cleave is stupidly op but I prefer if WARs use inner beast so I can DPS myself rather than having to heal the tank who is constantly making himself squishy for periods of time and making me heal that chunk of his HP he is losing and gaining all the time

[Adire]

snip

That's just poor play. A good warrior will use Awareness with Raw Intuition when there are going to be mobs hitting them from anywhere but the front (Awareness nullifies Raw Intuition's crits), and will pop at least one cooldown to offset having no Defiance mitigation while in Deliverance.

Vengeance for example with Bloodbath will make WARs have great self healing for trash particularly, and a 30% damage reduction (which is higher than PLD's Shield Oath) for most of the time they're in Deliverance. Add on the huge self heals you get from Fel Cleaving or Decimating while Bloodbath is up, and you've got nice mitigation.

And the worst case scenario is that you have to do intensive healing for the short time the WAR is in Deliverance. It's not that bad as long as you're paying attention and the damage the WAR is dealing while in it for that short time is worth the very temporary healer dps trade off.