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  1. #301
    Player
    Ossom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    368
    Character
    Ossom Possom
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 53
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidra View Post
    Hypercharge extended duration is more turret dps, and the Gauss Round adds 60 potency per minute, plus a small positive impact on Wildfire. The personal DPS difference between MCH and Bard wasn't that big to begin with, I'd imagine this closes it. And even if it doesn't Hypercharge is now much stronger than Foes'
    Put this in perspective with the new Monk Buff. Howling Fists is a 40 Potency increase a minute, and Demolish is a 20 * 10 * 1.3 * 1.1 Potency increase per Minute, or 286 Potency increase a minute. So Monks got a 5 X Potency Buff increase per Minute over MCH if you don't account for the Pet.

    I personally like where MCH is at the moment, but their big buffs were the QoL changes to the Flashing Skills IMHO.

    Edit : forgot to take into account Gauss Barrel, so 1.3 X 60 is 78 Potency.
    (0)
    Last edited by Ossom; 02-20-2016 at 08:33 AM.

  2. #302
    Player
    Drasyra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Drasyra Fyr
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 60
    I'm actually happiest about the change to procs. Being a UK player who plays on a NA server, even with a VPN I quite often get enough latency that my procs don't highlight until I've already pressed 1 again. That really adds up. The other tweaks and amazing buff to Hypercharge is just gravy.
    (0)

  3. #303
    Player
    Myon88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    842
    Character
    Myon Miya
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Regarding Hypercharge, my hunch tells me that if we leave it where it currently is in our opener, we'd only go from 5 shots to 6 turret shots with the new 20s duration.

    Where it is now, the timing is such that we get the last shot at the very end of the Hypercharge buff. It's so close that you can even lose that 5th shot right now, if you go through the prepull sequence and then your tank doesn't pull on time.

    Given the ~3 second turret firing interval, and 5 extra seconds of duration, that means we'll get a 6th shot around the 18th second, and the remaining 2 seconds will be wasted because the buff drops on the 20th second and the next turret shot after that is only due on the 21st second.

    I'm guessing that to ensure we get 7 buffed turret shots under the effect of Hypercharge, we'll have to move it slightly backward in the opener, to something like Bfb, HE, RS, Hypercharge, (pull) - which is one GCD later, or possibly even after the actual pull.
    (0)
    Last edited by Myon88; 02-21-2016 at 01:08 AM.

  4. #304
    Player
    Judge_Xero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,228
    Character
    Divine Gate
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Myon88 View Post
    I'm guessing that to ensure we get 7 buffed turret shots under the effect of Hypercharge, we'll have to move it slightly backward in the opener, to something like Bfb, HE, RS, Hypercharge, (pull) - which is one GCD later, or possibly even after the actual pull.
    I was always partial to the

    GB off, Bfb, HE, HOT, HC, RS, GBON, LS -> ETC

    just to make sure others get the longest duration of HC as well.
    (0)
    "I don't always drink beer, but when I do, it's often."
    Temp Forum Ban - July 7th 2016 *** I promise to never call out scrub players again due to it causing a toxic community

  5. #305
    Player
    Ephier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    781
    Character
    Ephier Samoht
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge_Xero View Post
    GB off, Bfb, HE, HOT, HC, RS, GBON****, LS -> ETC
    Won't you clip your GCD where I marked (****)?
    (1)

  6. #306
    Player
    Myon88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    842
    Character
    Myon Miya
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge_Xero View Post
    just to make sure others get the longest duration of HC as well.
    It's my understanding that whether you use Hypercharge after the pull like that (to really ensure that nothing is wasted), or you do it in the prepull period, the duration of the vulnerability debuff is the same. Since it's the turret shot itself that refreshes the debuff - if you get 5 shots within Hypercharge in both cases, the duration of the vulnerability debuff is the same.

    But you're right that using it after the pull like that will absolutely guarantee you get the maximum benefit, it's insurance against slow tanks and what have you.
    (0)

  7. #307
    Player
    Judge_Xero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,228
    Character
    Divine Gate
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephier View Post
    Won't you clip your GCD where I marked (****)?
    GB is pretty quick so not significantly or if at all when you start with GB off.
    (0)

  8. #308
    Player
    Ephier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    781
    Character
    Ephier Samoht
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge_Xero View Post
    GB is pretty quick so not significantly or if at all when you start with GB off.
    Kinda does, cause pot which chews into the GCD by itself. The opener you presented delays it and will not be applied to lead shot.
    (0)

  9. #309
    Player

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    389
    honestly i think 7 shot hc is maybe a stretch, but here's what i have atm with adjusting the old opener

    6 shot hc opener

    he>HC>bfb>rs>hots shot->dex pot->etc

    you might get an extra auto in buffed by he/bfb if you take gb off after 2nd clean shot doing it like this. with higher sksp (700+ with fey wind) you can get the slug shot buffed too (though a slug shot buffed by bfb/he+rs+gb is probably stronger than 1 buffed auto+slug, esp after 3.2 gear. so maybe best to turn gb off for the split shot instead.) not really much change here if 6 shots is the max. can swap he/bfb if desired.

    7 shot hc opener - tight timing, turret aa reset


    he>bfb>rs->hot shot->hc->dex pot->lead shot->etc

    RS loses 1 GCD here (slug shot), but if 7 shot HC is the max then this guarantees it+a nice bonus of turret aa reset via hc cancel

    7 shot hc opener - lenient timing, no turret aa reset


    he bfb rs hc->hot shot->dex pot->lead shot->etc

    same as above, but you save a bit of time if the timing is for some reason lenient enough that you can pop it pre combat. however you lose the benefit of having the turret fire once, then resetting its auto attack with hypercharge. so basically it is 400-500 dmg turret shot vs spending 1 less buff clipping into GCD during the pull. if you use HC pre combat it will only start shooting once you initiate dmg on the boss, which is 1.5s, as opposed to initiating hypercharged volley shots immediately if you are in combat already. right now with buff order HE BFB HC RS>GB hotshot, our HC turret has 13s left on the buff, but still gets 5 shots in.

    7 shot hc opener - extremely lenient timing


    (nogb) he>bfb>hc>rs->hot shot->gb on+dex pot->etc

    if its lenient enough that we can keep our old buff opener by skipping the 1.5s delay on hotshot before the turret starts attacking, this may be the way to go. at high skillspeeds/fey wind buffed you still get the last slugshot in wf buffed by rs. it basically trades 1.5s precast on hotshot+a bit of extra GCD clip for RS buffed slugshot in wf and 1 auto.

    also with gr being 200 potency, probably more important to have it off cd faster than rico now. it was already higher pps; i just preferred rico off cd for more uniform cd alignment w
    (0)
    Last edited by Aiurily; 02-21-2016 at 03:28 PM.

  10. #310
    Player
    Myon88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    842
    Character
    Myon Miya
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Yeah assuming the timing is lenient enough, I'm hoping something like the 3rd case is possible, it wouldn't be too drastic of a change from our current opener, it's just switching RS and HC.

    Activating Hypercharge when combat has already started, you'd get shots on (roughly) the 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, and 19th seconds for 7 shots.
    Assuming that 1 second of wriggle room is enough, then with it as the last prepull GCD we might see shots on the 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20th seconds with the window for the last shot being very tight (similar to our current 5th shot in a 15 second Hypercharge when used 2 seconds before the pull - 3, 6, 9, 12, 15).

    It's definitely going to be the first thing I try out once servers go up on Tuesday.

    however you lose the benefit of having the turret fire once, then resetting its auto attack with hypercharge
    On this note, I'm under the impression that you still benefit from this (just in reverse) if you use Hypercharge before the pull, as long as the end timing is right. For example, we get it with our 5th shot now, where at the 15th second we get a charged turret shot, then the Hypercharge buff drops off which resets the turret attack interval and immediately triggers a normal shot.

    Basically, because both the start and end of Hypercharge reset the turret attack interval, there's an opportunity to cheat out an extra turret attack at both ends.

    So when you use Hypercharge immediately after your first attack, you get a normal turret shot immediately cancelled into a charged turret shot as you mentioned. Conversely, if you time it so that Hypercharge falls off just as you get the last charged shot, then you have the same thing just in reverse - a charged turret shot cancelled into a normal turret shot.

    Sadly the current durations of Hypercharge (both 15 and 20 seconds) mean that you can't do both, you either benefit from one or the other. For example, if it were 22 seconds (or any 3X + 1 second timing), then you could Hot Shot > Hypercharge and immediately get that double shot, and then get it again (in reverse) on the 22th second when your last charged shot cancels into an immediate normal turret shot.
    (0)
    Last edited by Myon88; 02-21-2016 at 05:56 PM.

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