Crafting is fun!

[Silverbane]

It IS a problem even if you blindly defend it as it currently stands.

How many times has a player lost a craft because of a DC? You don't have any idea how often this occurs system-wide, do you?

So saying it is a problem is well and good, but whether it is a problem worth the devs spending their finite time on, instead of on, say, new content, you don't have any clue at all about, do you?

I get that you are unhappy with the system. But I don't care, because I like it the way it is and don't want it changed into what you seem to want it to be.

[Elim]

Yeah, what crafting lacks is a way to do 100% success-rate Reclaim by pulling the Ethernet cable out of the back of your gaming system, that's what's wrong with it -- not.

However, I have read that people can contact customer support to get their mats back if they DC during a craft. Ever try that?

How about being able to re-log and still be mid-craft? You wont lose your mats, or have them all returned, only the progress you made towards your craft will be saved. No cheating the system, but nothing will be lost either. Not sure if it's possible but it's an idea.

[TheUltimate3]

snip

1. Was that the favors thing I was hearing about? Beyond that, if one where to go out and get materials themselves and that takes a while, doesn't that beat buying said materials off the MB?
2. What exactly is capped weekly? Does crafting an item have an actual cooldown or is it the materials that are capped?
3. Actually a issue, but one I both understand and sympathize with. I understand crafters want to make items worth a damn, but I also know requiring a crafter when the prices tend to be hat on arse benefits nobody but the crafter.
4. Also a concern, but to me seems more of a case that will change as the expansion goes on. Time will tell.
5. I assume this has to do with Point 3.
6. Probably should, but considering the constant hell that is Server Space, I wouldn't know how to do so.

[Iagainsti]

6. No anti-DC measurements in place, you can loose a week of work in 1 DC.

I have desynthed 1000s of loot drops and crafted items, and I think I have lost one to a DC. The actual chances of this happening are 1/1000s unless you can provide me with other data to show otherwise. So this is a pretty week argument concerning the scrip grind.

[Joronas]

As to the whole objectively/subjectively bad? The two aren't related. People are *weird*. Fairly universally. Some people like some things, other people like other things. It's fairly safe to say that something can be objectively bad by almost every metric, and still have someone enjoy it. Some of them are the gaming equivalent of those who climb Everest for fun .. some of them just enjoy brutally punishing systems .. some of them just aren't experienced in other systems (or, for instance, ARR), so this being better then drop mats in box, take out item that has random stuff on it seems like a hugely wonderful progress.

Now ... the reasons why I would say crafting is bad:
#1 - there is nothing endgame that is not crafting related. Nothing that is competitive, interesting, or viable for use. It's not a case of "suboptimal" -- the ilvl spread for drops/tomes is a full 40. The absolute best crafted piece is 160. Law is so easy to acquire that it's trivial to have full 170, and takes only a little while for full 180. 5 weeks can get you full 190, with several 200 pieces.
#2 - Scrip tokens. Being able to craft 2-3 pieces a week, if you do full tokens, and gather full time (with 100% exactly the favors you need exactly the mats you need .. plus access to all the folklore items ....)
#3 - Specialists. Play with your hamster wheel! Whistle while you're doing it! Enjoy the RNG! Most of the abilities are lesser versions of existing abilities, with more RNG mixed in. The few that aren't are hyper dependent on RNG -- not just 50/70/80/90 ... but dependent on getting a series of 'good'/'excellent' or eat up the already extremely limited CP pool. Or both.
#4 - Serious community arguments. All related to the above. You have those who have crafted for ages, worked at leveling everything up .. call them the old guard. You have the people who are just starting, working on their first class ... and you have huge disagreements between them. Worst offender? specialist recipes, which I really hope don't get implemented (I'm old guard)
#5 - Too much uncertainty. Nobody knows what's coming next .. and most of us have had enough kicks in the teeth to not trust it. It's not generally 'looking forward eagerly for new content', at best it's 'looking forward with trepidation' going to 'looking forward with dread' and at worst ... 'not crafting anymore', because none of the changes implemented since 3.0 have been significant. Gathering got 1 that was helpful; but it wasn't a big change. It did make the system barely usable though.
#6 - It breaks the thriving interconnected market ARR had, where:
On one side, dungeons/raids provided mats directly and through seals and tomes, everyone could earn gil that way, gear was available for DoW/DoM that was, if not BiS, at very least competitive
On another side, gatherers built up mats which crafters needed, and purchased new gathering gear which helped them
On the third side, crafters bought and acquired mats and made gear for themselves and sold gear for others.

Everyone was able to participate and everyone benefited from it. With the lack of things to sell at the top end, this system is broken. It's become two separate endgames now -- DoW/DoM and Crafter/Gatherer ... not one system that interacts at the top level. And of course ... while you're leveling to 60, you get several full gearsets of HQ gear as quest rewards ... for War and Magic both. I think that's more insult to injury personally.

[DarthBuzzer]

I don't craft for gil either, but because of this system I cannot craft for the sake of crafting. No, I have to do 3 hours of objectively badly designed gathering for 10 minutes of being able to enjoy crafting actual difficult recipes, and I may or may not even be rewarded due to DC's. Plus, these items have an almost non-existent market on all servers. Their prices are sky high and encourages gil buying because their high price is dependent on the system.

[Silverbane]

No, I have to do 3 hours of objectively badly designed gathering for 10 minutes of being able to enjoy crafting actual difficult recipes, and I may or may not even be rewarded due to DC's.

A couple of differences between you and me, apparently:
1) I enjoy running Favor nodes, although it does get exhausting running full-tilt like that, so I do them 15 or so at a time.
2) I rarely DC. Hopefully that will continue to be true, I just yesterday upgraded to a 16-channel DOCSIS 3.0 modem (to get 300Mbps service) and from the event logs on it I think it is waiting for a configuration update from my ISP, which caused it to DC once last night.

[Ksenia]

I don't craft for gil either, but because of this system I cannot craft for the sake of crafting. No, I have to do 3 hours of objectively badly designed gathering for 10 minutes of being able to enjoy crafting actual difficult recipes, and I may or may not even be rewarded due to DC's. Plus, these items have an almost non-existent market on all servers. Their prices are sky high and encourages gil buying because their high price is dependent on the system.

There is some serious RMT manipulation in HW right now but it's a double edged sword.

I have challenged a few of the items that were over priced on Sarg and the markets crashed almost immediately, never recovering. So while it's great for the gil sellers to have the optic that you need hundreds of millions of gil, even when you break that optic, it becomes clear nobody wants most of the crafted stuff anyway. There was one item selling for 20K, it should sell for 4 or 5 on Sarg. I started making some, monitored my sales and people trying to keep the price high bought more at 20K than did when I flooded the market at 8K per.

hence the double edged sword. Yes, it's doing wonders for RMT but without RMT manipulation, there would be no market at all. They are doing the game a favor in an odd way.

[myahele]

I had such high hope for crafting; but it seems that the theory of gearing up through scrips is not different in practice.

I want to get into crafting, but I am pretty discouraged due to all the complaints. Aside from gathering mats it seems as if things you need to craft for red scrips uses the same mats you need to make gear/items for profit. In other words, you have to choose between gearing up or making gil due to them sharing the same mats.

I probably wrong, but that's what I'm pretty much getting from all the complaints

[Iagainsti]

iPhone <contd> the "many opinions" negative towards the crafting 3.0 is not a fact proving that the system is broken, so I don't understand what you are trying to debate with me.
#GoOnGit