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  1. #1
    Player
    jomoru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    694
    Character
    Arete Sophoi
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    There is nothing fair about being conquered. We also saw how the "recruit" in 1.0 and in the 2.0 quests involving the deserter. We can look at basic math to see that the majority of legionaires have to be conscripts because the majority of the Empire is annexed territory. The Empire austensibly controls two whole continents and were considered a small nation before they went out expanding. We know for a fact that the Empire took heavy losses in Othard fighting Primals to the point Primals now completely freak out the Imperials. Unless True Garleans are hyper fecund the majority of legionaires have to be conscripts.

    Since we only see the Empire on war footing it might be a reasonable mistake to assume its a military meritocracy, but look again at the civilian hierarchy. Commoners cannot gain any of the political positions. Twenty years(or more so they could just decide to not give it to you.. but hey "tough but fair" right?) means you get the rights of a commoner. Your children(because they were probably born during your noncitizen time!) have to go thorugh it all over again and none of them have the option to have any say in governing.

    Meanwhilte Uldah, which no one but the most Randian free marketist would call a meritocracy, has Raubahn's rising up from the streets to joining the the council that runs the city by raw act of his skill with a sword. That's far more meritocratic than anything we see with the Garleans but hey the Uldians don't scream about how fair and just the invisible hand of the free market is so I guess no one looks at that.
    (1)
    Last edited by jomoru; 09-20-2015 at 11:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Hermit's Hovel
    Posts
    3,698
    Character
    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    While the Garlean method is, again, harsh, it is entirely fair. Submit or earn your freedom. It just so happens that we've been able to keep our freedom, twice now, because of supernatural help (first with Midgardsormr uncharacteristically taking on the Agruis, then with an assist from Hydaelyn herself so we wouldn't get blown up by Ultima). Gaius offers the Alliance an ultimatum: fight or submit. The Garlean Empire follows a very "might makes right" philosophy, probably best exemplified by one of Gaius' lines just before your fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius van Baelsar
    It is only right that I take your lands, for none among you have the strength to stop me!
    He also points out that "It is ever the strong who dictate the fate of the weak," which is actually true. He's basically challenging you to prove Eorzea deserves its freedom... and you prove to him that, ancient magitek monstrosities and divine magic aside, it does because you are powerful enough to defend it.

    Whether they extend citizenship to the children of soldiers who have earned their citizenship, well, who knows. But children born after a soldier earns their citizenship are probably automatically granted citizenship themselves, and while it's possible to deny a soldier citizenship after their 20 years we don't know how often they do this.

    That's not to say the Empire is good. Far from it. On an alignment chart, they would almost undoubtedly fall under Lawful Evil with some Neutral / Chaotic Evil people in the ranks. That's just the system, though; there are probably Garlean citizens, some maybe even in places of political power, who aren't all power-hungry suckups to the Emperor. An Amyeric figure for them would set the stage for for a complicated storyline with us constantly trying to keep war at bay while attempting to change the Garlean system from within... the problem is that we've not seen much of the Garleans beyond their imperialistic military dictatorship of an army, which isn't surprising since we haven't gone to Garlemald proper yet.

    Well, nobody said changing a military dictatorship without open war was easy.

    Anyway, Ul'dah is not a meritocracy. It's a plutocracy, rule by wealth. Of course, it takes ability to run the market successfully enough to reach a position of power, so in a way it's meritocratic... but Ul'dahns could be born into poverty and work their entire lives, yet never escape their low birth. The Garlean system, while brutal, ostensibly gives everyone an equal chance to rise to the station they deserve, be it though strength of mind or strength of body.

    Raubahn, like Rhitatyn, just happens to be an exception to the rules thanks to his talent. Doubtlessly, there are myriad refugee gladiators who never make it big like Raubahn did, just like there are countless legionnaires who never make it big like Rhitatyn did. The difference is that Ul'dahns are self-aware enough to recognize their system is harsh and brutal and make no attempt to sugarcoat it.
    (0)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
    [ ]LOST [ ]NOT LOST [X]TRAUNT!
    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  3. #3
    Player
    Frederick22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,353
    Character
    Frederick Blake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    And what happenes if an Gaerlan high rank officer wants to kill you for no reason and by luck you manage to kill him, on self defense of course. What you after that?
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Delphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    70
    Character
    Exiel Forrest
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick22 View Post
    And what happenes if an Gaerlan high rank officer wants to kill you for no reason and by luck you manage to kill him, on self defense of course. What you after that?
    What happens to a person after that is subjective to the decision of the one that judges the circumstances. It may be that they see you as having been very capable to kill the higher ranked officer in combat and promote you, therefore solidifying the meritocratic view of the Empire, or that they consider the death of the higher ranked officer as an assassination on your part and kill you.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player Kaiser-Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,966
    Character
    Kai Magnus
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Delphor View Post
    What happens to a person after that is subjective to the decision of the one that judges the circumstances. It may be that they see you as having been very capable to kill the higher ranked officer in combat and promote you, therefore solidifying the meritocratic view of the Empire, or that they consider the death of the higher ranked officer as an assassination on your part and kill you.
    I guess that would be dependent on the officer's reputation with your judge then.

    Of you killed Nael van Darnus and Gaius was your judge He'd probably be like "Nice one, give this pesant a metal and some legal papers."
    Van Hydrus how every (who seems to be a brown nosing prik) would probably have you exicuted "IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR!!"
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Enkidoh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ala Mhigo
    Posts
    8,304
    Character
    Enkidoh Roux
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    May I also just pipe in and remind ex 1.0 players that it was revealed that the Garleans actually resort to brainwashing the people of their conquered nations into... god-hating anti-beastmen zealots? Because the main scenario of 1.0 clearly and disturbingly showed in an Echo vision Ala Mhigan children being subjected to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by version 1.0 main scenario quest 'Futures' Perfect'
    (A group of hyuran Ala Mhigan children sit huddled together in a cave somewhere in Mor Dhona)
    Shivering Child: "Where are we going?"
    Terrified Child: "..."
    Shuddering Child: "Mama..."
    Cried-Out Child: "Where are you from? I'm from Ala Mhigo."
    Cowering Child: "Please... I'm so tired..."
    (A group of Garlean soldiers led by a Centurion appear. The player quickly hides as the Garleans surround the children and the Centurion addresses them)
    Imperial Centurion: "Believe thyself. Believe thy strength."
    Imperial Centurion: "Know thyself. Know thy weakness."
    Imperial Centurion: "Thou art alone. One amongst many."
    Imperial Centurion: "The land is alone. One star in the void."
    Imperial Centurion: "See through the lies. See beyond the words of deceivers."
    Imperial Centurion: "Follow the truth. Follow the whispers of verity."
    Imperial Centurion: "Protect that which must be. Destroy that which must not."
    Imperial Centurion: "For Calamity draws nigh. The End is upon thee!"
    (A change comes over the cowering children... they stop whimpering and hiss angrily through clenched teeth, standing zombie-like one by one)
    Shuddering Child: "Kill the tribes..."
    Terrified Child: "Kill their Gods."
    Shuddering Child: "Kill the tribes..."
    Shuddering Child: "Before the Land doth perish!"
    (The Garlean soldiers then lead the now brainwashed children to a hovering Imperial airship and the scene ends)
    Although ARR retconned a lot of 1.0's story, this brainwashing of Ala Mhigan children by the Garlean Empire clearly rings true even in ARR, as it definitely explains Rhitayan's zealous behaviour towards Gaius (as well as many other Garleans who are stationed within Eorzea - remember 'Mr Stabby Mcstabber' and his bloodthirsty rampage during the Raid on the Waking Sands? ), although it's just as easy to explain away his unwavering, even slavish, devotion to the Empire as simply pragmatic survival, but I still favour the brainwashing theory myself.
    (2)
    Last edited by Enkidoh; 10-13-2015 at 04:41 PM.

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