How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[JackFross]

Anyone any guide visual/written on how to push more dps during thordan ex?

I seem to be slacking lmao, atm i201 gear. but seems to me that drg can't get higher than 1000 dps on that fight being i201 :c

You should be able to hit 1000 in the fight at i201 if you have the 200 or 205 spear, assuming you have MCH, NIN, or a second DRG in the party. You might fall short with MNK/BRD second-melee/ranged comp. I was hitting ~1060-1080 at i207-208 before I got my new spear, which has my best so far at 1125. I'm currently the highest DRG on the fight on fflogs who didn't have an AST feeding them cards.

A large part of Thordan EX is like hitting a striking dummy so if you're hitting your rotation cleanly and using your wits with regards to your BotD timer and upcoming mechanics there's not too much to elaborate on. Some small stuff of note which I see common in a lot of PF parties:

1. Get the melees to stack at the start to bait the AOEs so you don't miss a GCD if they aren't (it's super annoying how common this happens in PF).
2. You can start attacking before the gaze animation happens (as early as the cast bar disappearing - maybe wait a short tick after to be safe before turning).
3. During Paladins, if you get the first or second dive, use Elusive Jump to close the gap on the way out. Don't waste SSD/DFD since the vulnerability up will still be active by the time it hits. If your group DPS is poor (you're not killing one of them before the second Divine Right) and you need to run back to the other add, you might want to save a gap closer so there's less downtime if you do use Elusive.
4. If you get comet during Phase 8, break your chains, avoid the gaze then get right back in and continue DPSing. He turns around during the large wave AOE so flank/rear shouldn't be an issue, just make sure not to get cleaved after all is said and done. You could be really cheeky by continuing to DPS while the other person does the work, but this can lead to hilarious results. If you're going to do this, use the room in front of the boss/by the main tank to help break, be mindful of the gaze and you should be good.

These are all pretty good points of advice. Things I'd add to help out:
1. You should be getting 4 gsk, 3 Jumps, 2 SSD, 1 DFD, and 4 Leg Sweeps in phase 1 every time. I have 600 Skill Speed and manage just fine getting three full HT rotations + HT>ID>Dis before phase. The end gets a bit hectic with ogcd firing.

2. Zephirin - Don't pop cooldowns here. You'll waste time on your b4b and you don't need to burn him down that fast. I always just do HT>IDC>TTT>ID>Dis with Jump after CT and Leg Sweep after TT, with Mercy Stroke near the end if the group gets him low enough.

3. Paladins - Get IR+B4B up asap and try and pull off PS+Jump (with BotD) on whichever Paladin you start on before Divine Right. Be prepared and use SSD to cross to the other if they get Sword Oath. I have two different rotations I use in that phase, depending. It goes:
HT>ID>[IR+B4B]>Dis>[PS+BotD]>CT>[Jump]>4th>???
Mine has Sword - Ph>[SSD]>TT>[Leg]>VT>[Life+gsk]>FT>4th>HT>IDC
Other has it - [SSD]>ID>[Leg]>Dis>CT>[Life+gsk]>4th>HT>IDC
Both ways, your last CT should hit before you absolutely *need* to move assuming you have first blue mark, 4th hit if second, Phleb if third, ID before DFD if none. I use DFD to close the next gap to the opposite dude, regardless of shield, since it's more accurate and less irritating than Elusive. I Elusive for the *following* switch, if there is one, and SSD back to the other Knight after, if he's not dead yet.
*** I will add that I doubt it matters which you use in which position here between DFD/Elusive, since the next time you'll get DFD back either way is after Ultimate End; it'll come off-cd during the raid damage or before you'd even get to it in the combo you unload after, and the next time Elusive is useful is ~4-5 minutes later on, so there should be no issue getting it back before then either way.

4. Following that, you should have IR+B4B+BotD+PS+Jump all ready for the comet phase. I don't use Phleb or Chaos Thrust on the Comet Circles - I only use one CT combo when I get to the Meteor Circle. Usually, I'll try and kill two during b4b before getting to Meteor. I'm usually around 1070-1090 before Ultimate End.


5. You shouldn't miss any positionals during Spear of Light. If you do the rotation proper, you'll hit the 4th hit after your second CT with enough time to stack and hit Phleb before the spear goes out. You should be able to get TT>VT>FT after Spear before Gaze. Don't burn Blood here, save it for after Conviction, just in case you lose Blood. If you aren't in charge of Conviction towers, you can burn it out without worry, ofc. I usually burn it just before the Dragon's Rage knockback, and then re-use it when I'm back on the boss, since I help with Conviction.

6. Elusive Jump out if you have tether or dragoon jump. DFD should be up to jump back after. Hold it until after the marks appear; use it as soon as you have a free spot and know you aren't running. Don't burn Blood here - hold it for after the Mercy spread. I burn Blood out with a gsk when I run to spread for chains/ice/comets. If you have comet, SSD back as soon as your chain breaks (just be sure to be standing in a safe line for Mercy). If you have ice, SSD back as soon as the ice attack hits you. I usually run back, but holding SSD is probably more beneficial.


7. The rest of the fight from there is a dummy fight. Burn everything on CD and you should be doing pretty well.

For Battle Litany, I use mine:
1. On pull.
2. On the swap after Dragoon dives during double Paladins.
3. Right after the first Gaze in final phase.
4. Near the end, during the dummy phase, before Zephirin.

This is essentially on cooldown; I hold it a little bit for 2 and 3 so it doesn't overlap downtime, but 4 is popped immediately.



The most important advice for DPS on Thordan, though, is that the biggest DPS increase you can get is staying alive. If you die or cause the party to wipe because you ignored a mechanic to boost your own DPS, you're not gonna do well.

[Ninjah2r]

Thordan strat

I'm trying everything you say, (except I don't use cooldowns during meteors, other than that, I try to max out everything, BOTD usage, GK's (545 ss at i203 so that sucks :c) but I seem not to get any higher than 900-910 dps lmao. I have the i205 spear. I'm still struggling to stay alive during the fight because I wasn't present at day 1 when my static raided so I didn't get as much trying as they had and I die naturally.

But it demotivates me quickly lol, seeing all those monk/mch/whatever is in my party, end up with like 1000+ dps rofl.

[Greyfrost]

I'm trying everything you say, (except I don't use cooldowns during meteors, other than that, I try to max out everything, BOTD usage, GK's (545 ss at i203 so that sucks :c) but I seem not to get any higher than 900-910 dps lmao. I have the i205 spear. I'm still struggling to stay alive during the fight because I wasn't present at day 1 when my static raided so I didn't get as much trying as they had and I die naturally.

But it demotivates me quickly lol, seeing all those monk/mch/whatever is in my party, end up with like 1000+ dps rofl.

I was away for some time from this thread but I'm back now, so I can help with strat. I'm expecting you need help with DPS optimizations during Thordan trial?

For research purpose and I was being curious enough tonight, I can deal around 1480 DPS over 3 minute on dummy with HQ Draco pots of strength.

Weapon was i205.

My stats is as follow :


Is it possible to throw out 4 GSK permin?

[JackFross]

But it demotivates me quickly lol, seeing all those monk/mch/whatever is in my party, end up with like 1000+ dps rofl.

The Thordan trial is really finnicky. You can't get a high parse like the one Then has up or the one I have up without the rest of your dps (and mostly the tanks) doing sub-par dps. You enter the last phase sub-1000 pretty much no matter what. From then on, your dps steadily rises. The longer the fight goes, the higher you go up. If you really wanna see how you're doing, check your DPS when standing around for Ultimate End. It should be over 1000, or at least close to 1000. If you're considerably lower than that, an 1100 parse or even a 1000 parse isn't very likely if your MNK and MCH are both ending over 1k.

Dying also has a pretty significant impact on dps, so try not to do that. Mechanics are more important - remember:
Dropping Blood of the Dragon for a while doesn't impact your DPS nearly as bad as being dead for even a fraction of that duration.

Also keep in mind that 8/10 top parses on the fight have an AST feeding them all of the cards to pad higher and place higher on the rankings. Party comp plays a big role.



The breakpoint for 4 gsk per minute with the normal rotation puts your gcd below 2.15, which would cause a whole host of other issues. In order to get +1 gsk per minute, you need to get +1 full combo in that minute. Since BotD comes back just before a third hit of the combo, you need to inject 5 gcds. If you get 25 GCDs in 1 minute currently (which you should be), you need to extend that to 30. 25 in one minute is a 2.4 gcd, hence why we aim for 2.4 gcd. It makes things clean and simple. 30 in one minute is a 2.0 gcd, hence why we don't even consider trying to make this work. Granted, the leeway is such that you can probably pull it off with a 2.05-ish gcd and not screw it up, since you can pull off 3 gsk per minute with a 2.45 gcd (since you only *technically* need to get 22 gcds in 1 minute, which is easily doable, regardless of your sks, and therefore just need 27 gcds to pull it off, which is like a 2.22 gcd, which is *still* far too short to realistically reach).

With single target Arrow or Enhance Arrow, you can pull off the 4gsk per minute *if the buff lasts one minute and is used exactly when your botd starts*. With Enhanced, the breathing room is a lot lighter and it's actually pretty easy to get the extra gsk in, though.


And, as whiskey said, if you want to make it consistent, you need to drop Phleb from your rotation altogether and you'll consistently hit 4/min.

[Ninjah2r]

@Jack, thanks for replying. It makes sense what you said about 2.22 ish gcd needed to get 4 GK's in there. and it makes completely sense too that it would bring a whole lot of other problems like tp managing.

Just gets me frustrated when my dps is not that high in that fight, I automatically blame my skill / my limited time I have to be better at that fight, because I always feel like underperforming/not doing my best when I look at the numbers.