How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[Hakmatic]

Why you guys holding so many cds? I've never used a doom spike on double hands(I'm not sure why you would do that?),I just double dot and hit them 4/5 lasers. Also I just use spineshatter for first wash away and elusive back for second. Its not that hard to aim it after you get used to it.

[whiskeybravo]

I was kinda curious if the DS would math out better, but don't want to get started on that lol. I've been dotting them both up as well, trying to make sure I haven't just refreshed them on the wrong one for equal concentration. Still figuring it out though.

[Thendiel]

Also~ @discussion above: There's a set that's in the OP with 650 ss / 900 crit. It's "technically" bis, using the stat weights in the OP. I say technically because I still prefer Dervy's (since suuuper low det), though with his I'd likely still swap in Brio because the SS is too low for me.
650 ss: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RM94

From there, though, you can swap to the Gordian booties and drop accuracy to 639 while boosting SS to 708, which is probably the set that's being referred to.
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RM95

Being referred to by whom? Should I remove the 650 SS set, or add another? I figured the 650 SS set belonged there due to its stat weighting and due to the fact that it provides a higher level Skill Speed than the other two (which some people might like as a question of preference--although, as you say, one could always just swap in a Brionac instead of a Gordian Trident with the others).

[Hakmatic]

I was kinda curious if the DS would math out better, but don't want to get started on that lol. I've been dotting them both up as well, trying to make sure I haven't just refreshed them on the wrong one for equal concentration. Still figuring it out though.

I just dont think you can get 4-5 lasers on double hands if you are using DS, you would just be wasting precious botd timer, and GK is 40 more potency per target then DS. You can just also keep up your normal rotation if you dont use DS.

[Thendiel]

One problem with Doom Spike spam before Equilibrium is that it could reduce the DPS output of your group's BRD/MCH during the Equilibrium check if the high-HP hand doesn't have Disembowel active. I just throw Dis and CT up on both of them for this reason.

Did we ever come to a consensus on the best approach for phase 1 of A3S? I know it's been a recurring topic of discussion, but everyone seems to do it their own way. In order to accomodate that awkward 22 GCD window (sometimes it's 23, depending on animation speeds, skill speed, etc.), I've been running with:

HT-ID-Dis-CT-4th
Ph-TT-VT-FT-4th
HT-ID-Dis-CT-4th
Ph-TT-VT-FT
ID-Dis-CT-HT (HT buff activates even if the damage doesn't go out)

Ignoring that 4th combo hit at the end feels a little weird, but I can still land 3 Geirskoguls with this approach, and Living Liquid will be debuffed with Disembowel when he reappears. Anyway, this is just something I came up with semi-randomly; I'd love to hear input from people who've thought about that phase more rigorously.

[SunnyHirose]

Why you guys holding so many cds? I've never used a doom spike on double hands(I'm not sure why you would do that?),I just double dot and hit them 4/5 lasers. Also I just use spineshatter for first wash away and elusive back for second. Its not that hard to aim it after you get used to it.

Spineshatter is the only one I hold. A lot of groups you'll see DRGs hold back a bit because they need to get past Hand of Pain (which I can understand... don't agree with it, but I can understand). My reasoning for holding the Spineshatter Dive is because my group uses Holmgang on the first and nothing for the second. It is therefore much safer to use the Elusive towards a fixed target and Spineshatter towards one that might be heading towards a tank on the opposite side of the arena from you in a second, and then possibly get dragged further if the tanks are too close to each other. Then the potential second gap-close if your last Hands mechanic is Prayer.

The theorycrafting behind Doom Spike on two targets is more than I care to get into right now because it's not as simple as just see 2 targets -> Doom Spike (I mean, it blows Full Thrust out of the water, but still). For A3, it's also got a lot to do with the timings of the hand phase, the time the BotD timer comes back up, and so forth. Where I can leave it for now is that the primary weakness of double-DoTing is that the Chaos thrust has to pay off almost all the way. Nor should you forsake Disembowel on the bard's primary target (which should be the same as yours) either, because at the very least you don't have the TP for that without a Goad. But the idea that 440 potency / 60 seconds is worth sacrificing a few rounds of 336 / 2.4 seconds should be regarded as a wut, at least.

It is just fine to double DoT, and you will beat out someone going single target only (which in itself is all that is necessary), but I'm confident that due to the timings on everything and the nature of the few opportunities you have to even attempt it, you do squeeze out a few extra potency with Doom Spike. Prove me wrong!

(edit: should also note that Elysium's world first video has a demonstration at about 2:20)

[Thendiel]

I think that Hak has already proven you wrong.

[JackFross]

I think that Hak has already proven you wrong.

To be fair, about 75% of A3S is the final phase. The amount of impact DS v 2x CT in hand phase has on that final parse number is astronomically small. Assume Doom Spike gives a boost of 200 dps in that 15s window - that's 3000 damage over the course of a 11m 36s fight (696s) which amounts to less than 5 dps. You won't even notice the difference. Crit rate causes more variance than that in final dps numbers. You can assume in the opposite direction, as well, and see the same thing. Also please note - 200 dps is a HUGE overestimation of the difference between those two approaches, I'm quite sure (without running the numbers), so the gain would be even smaller over such a long fight. C:

That is to say - a single parse of a clear attempt being the top can't be used to prove one method over the other in one small window of a long fight, since there's FAR too many other factors that come into play in individual parses.

ALSO I just panicked something fierce since a parse of me was on there and I had never submitted one and I was like HOW DID IT KNOW xD

[SunnyHirose]

Oh, he has me beat there for sure (I know who I'm talking with), but that's not formal enough a proof to convince me

It's impressive enough with a death, though.

Next week I get to see what I do with i208 level strength. ((I'm looking forward to it!))

[Hakmatic]

I think that Hak has already proven you wrong.

I died at the end too My issue with DS has nothing to do with the double dotting, it's botd timers, I get 4-5 lasers on double hands, how many do you get? In sitting at 1450-75 going into adds with no DS.