How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[raela]

So I could use some insight/help too, though perhaps not strictly DRG related (though I am the DRG in this case). I'm in a static that just formed last week, with at least half of us without A5S clears/experience going into it. We're still learning the mechanics.

One of our members is sure that we should be skipping the first prey based on our gear, but we're not, so he's thinking the DPS are having issues with rotations. I'm of the opinion that it's more an issue of party comp/gear and not as much directly the DPS. No one has pentamelded i220, and only two DPS have A5S clears/drops. All do have i230 weapons (I'm at i224 overall on my DRG). Best parse of tonight here: http://www.fflogs.com/reports/wT1mMQ...e-done&fight=2

We're generally hitting 91~92% as the MT starts getting stacks, and get to the 90% before the tank buster goes out. Some of us feel like we should just forget the push for mechanic skipping for now, so that we can set up ideally for prey (and learn mechanics enough for a clear). But hey - does anyone spot anything glaringly wrong at this stage?

[aleph_null]

Best parse of tonight here: http://www.fflogs.com/reports/wT1mMQ...e-done&fight=2

I can only comment on the warrior and dragoon since I only play those two jobs for savage atm. It seems that your dragoon's heavy thrust and blood of the dragon uptime is quite low, but since you're still practicing it might be inevitable that you drop buffs here and there.

As for the warrior, I think since your party has a dragoon and a ninja he shouldn't build up 4 abandon stacks before using berserk since the buffs won't align well. I usually use berserk after my first storm's eye and settle with two fell cleaves during berserk. Also if I remember correctly to skip first prey you need to get the boss to 89% at around 30s mark, so if your warrior builds up 4 stacks before using berserk, that'd be around 16s after pull, he only gets 3/4 of the berserk duration before 30s mark.

[SunnyHirose]

One of our members is sure that we should be skipping the first prey based on our gear, but we're not, so he's thinking the DPS are having issues with rotations.

Correct on both counts. Now how important is that...? Eh, I don't want to single anyone out, but some of you could improve in big ways, and all of you could improve in minor ways.

Now, mechanics is why you're not clearing, it's true, but posing the question in a DPS forum is like asking a plumber to fix your car; they're gonna start by looking for leaks....

[raela]

Correct on both counts. Now how important is that...? Eh, I don't want to single anyone out, but some of you could improve in big ways, and all of you could improve in minor ways.

Now, mechanics is why you're not clearing, it's true, but posing the question in a DPS forum is like asking a plumber to fix your car; they're gonna start by looking for leaks....

Which is why I am asking here. I challenged him to point out exactly who is doing what wrong, and he fell back on "well maybe everyone should review their job rotation to make sure they're doing it right." If I'm the problem, be blunt and that's fine.

I checked HT/BOTD, and one gap was from being a bird for boost, and the other was from mechanic juggling (bombs I believe - so yeah I can improve there).

[SunnyHirose]

Which is why I am asking here. I challenged him to point out exactly who is doing what wrong, and he fell back on "well maybe everyone should review their job rotation to make sure they're doing it right."

Just because he was bluffing doesn't make what he said wrong. Usually when someone says "rotation issues" and can't elaborate, they've just seen what other groups can do with worse gear, but they don't know the actual source of low DPS. What I'm saying, having at least a passing familiarity with all the jobs, is that everyone in your party, 8/8, has some "push all the buttons and stick to the boss" issues. That's beyond just rotation problems; a competent rotation that isn't optimal isn't going to be more than a couple percent worse than optimal.

But you guys are letting your some buffs and debuffs fall off that should be very high uptime, not using certain cooldowns anywhere near on cooldown, and spend a remarkable amount of time just plain not hitting the boss. All of you, to some extent. There's not much I could or should say in terms of openers, rotations, and situational tricks as we usually talk about in this thread when the real problem is bare minimum basics that have less to do with rotation than they do with just plain using skills as much as possible. Remember, uptime is the best buff. If you aren't hitting, you're not doing damage.

Some people are holding on to oGCD buffs, sometimes for longer than their cooldowns, which is inexcusable. That's disgraceful, like straight up not attacking. I hope you can understand why I don't want to talk about that.

Some people aren't using GCDs as often as they could. Improving on this is not easy to explain, but it is the bulk of all damage whether you use the right or wrong skill; just aim to get it right >99% of the time so you can shrug off the mistakes. This is why people say "always be casting" (it's a reference to a movie scene where Alec Baldwin aggressively explains to a bunch of salesmen how they are very bad at their jobs because they're hardly even trying). All raiders need to know when and how to do this effectively. This is why we talk about gap-closers in the dragoon thread. This is why BLMs talk about what openers they can get away with in the BLM thread. Tanks and healers are not exceptions, either; some very good healers have talked about how GCDs are the real resource limitation on them, not MP. Particularly because of bird mode, there's no real reason both healers can't be dishing out serious DPS.

For a look at oGCDs and DoT uptimes, consult the buffs and debuffs tabs on FFLogs. You can isolate it to each player's contribution. If you do not know how a buff is used, compare it to how a good player performs in another browser window.

For GCD uptimes, you can check the casts tab and check whose casts aren't happening when other players' are, but it's only easy to diagnose that there's a problem that way, not how to fix it.

[MiniTyra]

Everyone in that team needs to improve.

http://www.fflogs.com/reports/wT1mMQ...=4&view=events

Why is your Ninja casting Suiton on the pull and attacking 6 seconds into the fight, leading with a Mutilate? Why is he using the Trick attack 15s into the pull, when it should be there at approximately the 3rd/4th GCD? Why is he using his IR/BFB 25s into the pull?

http://www.fflogs.com/reports/wT1mMQ...=7&view=events

Why is there an 8-second gap on your Bards casts? http://puu.sh/oqo3c/87f32fe54c.png Wot. There's a lot of gaps in his/her rotation.

Your Ninja and Bard are the two main culprits, why you're not pushing the phase imo.

As for not getting the clear, which is the real issue at hand, that's a mechanical problem. You guys just need more practice on the fight.

[Arkenne]

Why is your Ninja casting Suiton on the pull

Wrongly timmed pull, some buffs werent back so it wrecked my opener (thats why Mutilate, IR and BFB were so wrongly placed).
However Suiton is better used on pull while closing the gap, since that way I don't have to deal with a 3 mudra cast in-between GCDs 4 skills later.

[raela]

Had time to look through videos, so here's one pull (that obviously went very poorly - MT said he'd pull boss to A, but didn't). Just to help us see how we can skip that prey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8xXWPGiFgI and parse from it http://www.fflogs.com/reports/wT1mMQ...pe=damage-done

The bard did mention she was lagging, but didn't realize it was that bad, and she said it was better at the start.. guess not. I'll let people know what you guys have suggested before we raid tonight, and see how it goes from there. Thanks!

[JackFross]

Had time to look through videos, so here's one pull (that obviously went very poorly - MT said he'd pull boss to A, but didn't). Just to help us see how we can skip that prey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8xXWPGiFgI and parse from it http://www.fflogs.com/reports/wT1mMQ...pe=damage-done

Are you finding lock-on on controller difficult? If it's a button press issue I recommend switching the postion from its default l3 to r3, then you can click it on and off much easier while playing

I have my lock-on on R3 and I swear by it. I actually recorded my 1416 A5S from Thursday. You can see my handling of lock-on in this fight in particular. Where I have it on, where I have it off. I can explain every point where I toggle it, if needed.

[MiniTyra]

If you're really adamant on pushing the phase...

1) BLMs positioning is off. He/she should not of been running in like that. The BLM should of been pre-positioned to be in casting range as soon as the hit goes off and should've made use of Aetherial Manipulation if they wanted to be in position for the AOE buster.

2) There's a very high possibility (hard to see from the camera angle) that you never got the Rear positional on the CT/WT. It looked like you're in the middle, closer to the front of the boss.

3) If your ninja is really adamant on using Shasta's opener, the Shadewalker will have to be casted literally just before the tank runs in, the Suiton Ninjitsus should be timed to be used "on the run" and Suiton + Spinning Edge should be used as soon as the pull happens, exactly like how you started with the Spineshatter Dive. I'd recommend your ninja to open up with Spinning Edge -> Shadow Fang -> Mutilate, as with a Ninjas 2.05 GCD, he/she should be able to get all those abilities in fairly quickly.

http://www.fflogs.com/reports/tLGCx9...vents&source=9

This is a perfect example of a Ninja opening for A5S.

4) Your entire groups positioning is off. The MT should of been where the Warrior was standing (Against the wall) and the Warrior should be on the Left or Right side of the Boss. When the Tank/AoE buster comes, he/she has more than ample time to stack with the rest of the party. If you do get the Tank Buster on the OT Swap, then holmgang should be used here to soak the damage and mitigate the knock-back.

Not only that, if you're dead serious on skipping the phase, your group should be pre-positioned on the right side of the arena, rather than the left, as that's where you need to move Ratfinx anyway for the two Cobras. Less movement = more DPS uptime.

It also looked like your Bard completely missed the Battle Litany from where he/she was standing. It's kinda evident they were standing too far back; they never made it in time for the AoE Buster (same for your Scholar) hence why your group took so much damage.

5) Lock On. You "missed" so many Auto-Attacks... You should get used to strafing, or using Lock-On.

http://www.fflogs.com/reports/compar...lity=7&phase=1

Take a look at this comparison, as an example. In the same Window (Ending Phase 1/Prey), despite your phase being 11s longer, Dervy still managed to get the exact same amount of Auto's in. You missed out on 4-5 Auto's not facing the boss properly. A lot of people have trouble with this. Get used to Lock-On if you really want to do serious DPS, or learn to adjust your character properly to always face your target.