How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[Darwyn_Ulondarr]

What are everyone's thoughts and theories about PvP stat weights? Putting aside ACC for the moment, I'd say pumping CRT and DET is a given for burst damage, but how much skillspeed (if any) would everyone take into a game?

[MiniTyra]

What's this new opener? Where is everything placed? Or is there a video, perhaps? It sounds like it's a bit more... forgiving when it comes to double weaving.

No, it's not more forgiving at all. It's less forgiving as the timing of every single oCD is 95% more strict.

The reason for Dervy's change is likely to shift Life Surge that second or so sooner to make things smoother in the long run while still maintaining IR buff on the gsk, since gsk is a flexible cooldown. He's doing insane levels of optimization to pull off an ideal rotation for maximum dps. That shift has absolutely no impact on the dps of the opener, but it has effects down the road.

Yup. And I also slightly screwed up in that video (double weaved in the wrong order and clipped my GCD twice). I think I could push 1650+ if it weren't for those two GCD clips, something I've since fixed.

As for the double CT opener, that's something myself and Relia have talked about extensively. As he's correctly mentioned, there's only a 700 damage difference between x2 CT and standard CT openers. You can use either; and some fights may actually favour double CT, over the standard GCD opener. One good example as you correctly mentioned is A4S, if you have a very fast (sub 1min) or slow (post-1:20) Leg 1 kill time.

You also switch around IR and BFB. Whilst that is slightly more Potency in the opener, it effectively pushes your BFB in a very tight spot where you're using it before PH. With higher levels of skillspeed which I now run, this will 100% definitely force me to clip my GCD, or end up delaying it by a further GCD, both of which are dramatic DPS losses. If you're running a 600SS set, then putting BFB where you've put it, Jack, is pretty solid, and was a complete oversight by myself.

As for me, personally, I'll stick to using it before ID, as I now rock 690+ SS on all of my gear sets.

[JackFross]

You also switch around IR and BFB. Whilst that is slightly more Potency in the opener, it effectively pushes your BFB in a very tight spot where you're using it before PH. With higher levels of skillspeed which I now run, this will 100% definitely force me to clip my GCD, or end up delaying it by a further GCD, both of which are dramatic DPS losses. If you're running a 600SS set, then putting BFB where you've put it, Jack, is pretty solid, and was a complete oversight by myself.

As for me, personally, I'll stick to using it before ID, as I now rock 690+ SS on all of my gear sets.

Yeah, I run 604 skill speed. The thing for me is that having B4B come back up just after Phlebotomize works out well for me, since the way my Jumps roll, my fourth Jump comes up just after B4B falls off if I use it before Phlebotomize, but just before it falls off if I use it after. In that particular instance, I actually get a gain from having it delayed that additional gcd. Granted, it's likely set up that way because my Jump timings are bad or something (1 after 1st 4th hit; 2 after 2nd Vorpal Thrust; 3 after 4th Heavy Thrust, 4 after 2nd B4B Chaos Thrust) which seems consistent at +3 gcds from the previous one, so I dunno. I did number crunching for it a page or two back. Please correct me if I'm doing something outright wrong here. Trading Phleb for a 4th hit + Jump turned out to be a net gain of B4B potency, in general.

[MiniTyra]

If you're using jumps as soon as they're off CD, delaying it by 1 GCD (in your case, after PH) will allow you to get that Jump buffed, yup.

The thing about running 670+ SS, is that you can use the BFB before the PH, which is more PPS than using it after the PH, and still get your Jump buffed by the BFB. Only downside is that your jump alignment is right after a CT (last 0.5s of BFB), so you need to use it here, which means you may get animation locked and unable to position yourself for your WT/FC. You can mitigate this by placing yourself right on the corner of the Rear/Flank... But it's still risky.

Trading Phleb for a 4th hit + Jump turned out to be a net gain of B4B potency, in general.

Yeah, my bro math off the top of my head says thats correct.

Still not as much potency as getting the buffed PH + Jump, however. It's one of the many few reasons why I love running 690 SS.

[JackFross]

That makes sense. And I never have issues with using Jump after CT - the only issue is that exact moment of using it. Generally, I'll hit CT, position, Jump, 4th hit without any delays or potency loss. With that b4b, doing that causes me to miss b4b with the Jump. Doing it like you suggested could mean losing 90 potency on the next hit. Seems like a sorta weird risk-reward that I *feel* would be more worth it to just not lose the 90 potency. The b4b would only give ~99 bonus potency on the Jump, including all the buffs, whereas missing the positional loses you ~113 potency, a net loss of 13. It's probably worth it due to the failure being -13 and the success being +99, but yeah.

I might have to look into making a higher skill speed set to test it out and see how it works for me. That 1633 dps video had you running ~690 sks?

[Ninjah2r]

soo I did less dps yesterday on thordan than I did when I was i203 ish back in november lmao. I'm i209 now, got 899 dps lol. I do 1500 at the dummy so my rotation should be good enough, but how the fuck do I increase my dps in that fight?
I mean I've asked back then here, and trying to implement all those tips, and I'm also staying alive lmao.

The way I see it is I can max my dps if I'm not lb'ing (x2) getting towers, and just play greedy/risky...

Is fflogs link enough for you guys to see what's wrong (bufflist etc) or will a vid be better?

[JackFross]

I think fflogs would be good enough. The duration of fight plays a part in your final dps, because the longer the fight goes, the higher you can get, but you should be entering final phase around 940-970 (or higher if you have NIN/AST/MCH) and going up from there. If you're starting *significantly* lower than that, your issues are probably in earlier phases. If your dps drops from where you enter to where you end, you're messing up in final phase execution. The only times in final phase that you should be off the boss for longer than half a gcd:

1. Towers + Dragon Rage
2. Lightning Storm, if you get picked for tether or dive
3. Fire & Ice - you always wanna run off for this

[Nominous]

Wait, so people are actually running SKS now? Was it proven to be better at some point or something?

[MiniTyra]

No. I just prefer it because it "feels" better during raids and cooldown alignment, personally, is better.

[Ninjah2r]

holy hell that's a lot of info <3 tyvm!

My opener seems off because I comepletely skipp out phleb out of my rotation, so I can get another GK in. I asked that a few months earlier and from what I gathered at that time, I could just skip out plheb so I can fit another GK in at the start of the fight.

About prepopping, that's my own stupid fault, I should know better lol during the Ser A and Ser J phase. a jump under b4b and SSD as the gapcloser instead of DFD which I used instead.

Also, I noticed that I can get BL in during this phase, and can use b4b/ir/blood during meteors so I'll try that too next time I go in. I'll ofcourse get back to you and have a fflogs link ready so you can see how I did

so that's the key things I"ll try to improve on for thordan ex.