How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[JackFross]

Are you sure about this o.0

It doesn't agree with Dervy's original analysis from the OP. Maybe you're calculating in some crit% that he didn't originally?

It would only be true for the opener. The difference between B and C is only one thing - you're trading the Impulse Drive and the second Heavy Thrust between the two skills. In B, ID gets B4B while HT gets BL. In C, it's the other way around. Since B4B is a bigger buff than BL, it would make sense that moving B4B to the stronger of the two hits (not including B4B/BL boosts) would be better than doing it vice versa. While it LOOKS like that initial ID is stronger than the second HT, it's not completely true that it is.

In the opener, that initial ID is:
180 x 1.15 = 207
Since it's up after HT, but before Dis hits.

Whereas the second HT is:
170 x 1.15 x 1.1 = 215.05
Since it gets both HT and the Dis buffs.


Though, this causes a point of confusion for me, since all of this stacked together should mean (based on what I'm seeing here) that this should be actually better than what's touted as the best opener:

HT>[IR>BL]>ID>[BotD>B4B]>Dis>[Pot]>CT>[Leg+PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk+Life]>FT>4th>HT

By approximately 9 potency (less than 1 pot per gcd). That's assuming IR falls off just before Vorpal Thrust, but catches the SSD. I don't like imagining a world where this might have been overlooked until now, and this DOES shift your B4B one gcd later than usual, which delays it going forward by that 1 gcd as well, but there's enough time in most every fight where you wanna hold B4B for 1-2 gcds for mechanics that this shouldn't make a realistic difference in the long run.

[CookieMonsta]

Yeah, there's a few situations where it's kinda difficult if not impossible to pull it off. A3S comes to mind primarily. I eat a LOT of positional loss in that fight because I want to clear and would rather not kill my healer or tank lmao.

The amount of times I've killed the BRD with Protean cuz of Fang and Claw.....

[MiniTyra]

HT>[IR>BL]>ID>[BotD>B4B]>Dis>[Pot]>CT>[Leg+PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk+Life]>FT>4th>HT

From Dervy ->

I might try this. This may be exactly what I were missing to really push the Dragoons min/max'd rotation to another level of insanity. 1650+ DPS 3min hype!

[whiskeybravo]

In the opener, that initial ID is:
180 x 1.15 = 207
Since it's up after HT, but before Dis hits.

Whereas the second HT is:
170 x 1.15 x 1.1 = 215.05
Since it gets both HT and the Dis buffs.

Yea, I guess it does work out to about 2 potency more once you make it back around. One concern, though, the second B4B usually comes off CD around a 4th/Phelb, at least for me, delaying one GCD in the opener would push it to not catch that phleb, so it would be better to hold it until VT.. So.. You're delaying first 2 B4Bs by around 3 or 4 GCDs. Surely that's more than 2 potency loss.

Just playing devil's advocate here :3

[Ninjah2r]

Anyone know what Dervy's new rotation is? He put up a vid a week back that he could parse 1633 with party buff + food (dunno which one) + pots.

(I tried with 1 star hq food hq drac str potions, and 2 asts + 1 ninja + 1 mch, which got me 1805 and 1826, so fun XD).

and my second question is, how do I calculate stat weights for lets say the thordan wep and the relic, so I can compare? I mean multiplying the numbers is easy and all, but how do I see what is better for future refs? Kinda want to calculate on my own lmao

ty!

[MiniTyra]

Anyone know what Dervy's new rotation is? He put up a vid a week back that he could parse 1633 with party buff + food (dunno which one) + pots.

(I tried with 1 star hq food hq drac str potions, and 2 asts + 1 ninja + 1 mch, which got me 1805 and 1826, so fun XD).

and my second question is, how do I calculate stat weights for lets say the thordan wep and the relic, so I can compare? I mean multiplying the numbers is easy and all, but how do I see what is better for future refs? Kinda want to calculate on my own lmao

ty!

(hi!)

The Rotation isn't just the opening burst. Well, sort of is. The opener, I've realised, allows you to perfectly execute a "string", where all of your oCDs flow near perfectly for optimal DPS. Things like, instead of doing IR -> BOTD, BOTD -> IR is used. BFB and IR are "held" a GCD to remove clipping and placed in positions which benefit other GCDs. Delays before Internal Release and Blood for Blood are calculated, so I can fit in as many oCDs as possible.


What's also interesting is that I'm able to actually get Jump to be buffed by every single BFB application used, granted, BFB is delayed and a Skillspeed of +670 is being used. The 3rd Jump/PS also isn't delayed!

Watch the video carefully from around... 1:10 ^^ (Or just before second BFB application)

Sunnys original analysis of his 900 CRT, 69X SS build is somewhat... True. Unfortunately, the weights do not demonstrate the true nature of Skillspeed as placement of oCDs and buffs are not taken into consideration in the far extreme values of SS/CRT. The weights are based off a static rotation, where X skill is buffed by Y skill at A time in the rotation. Not, "oh I have more SS now so this oCD can be buffed" etc etc. There's more to it than that... But sadly, the spreadsheets or the methodologies being used to calculate the weights can't correctly "weigh" SS dynamically.

I think 1650+ is possible. Some oCDs clipped my GCD and could of been used in more "efficient" places.

As for your second question, I don't know what you're asking. Are you asking for a set-builder? Or wondering how you can get the weights going into 3.2? Or what exactly?

[CookieMonsta]

Yea, I guess it does work out to about 2 potency more once you make it back around. One concern, though, the second B4B usually comes off CD around a 4th/Phelb, at least for me, delaying one GCD in the opener would push it to not catch that phleb, so it would be better to hold it until VT.. So.. You're delaying first 2 B4Bs by around 3 or 4 GCDs. Surely that's more than 2 potency loss.

Just playing devil's advocate here :3

This is true, it's especially evident for me because with the Skillspeed the relic gives, the 2nd BFB is uncomfortably close to the tail end of the GCD before Phleb

[Erys]

Ello guys, tried A1S with pf group.
1600 something on faust, no food no pot, only AST. Cleared
1018 on oppressor, same. No clear. I was assigned Opp 0.5 and this was my most dps uptime try, got prey'd and alarum in first phase. Apparently me and the blm downed 0.5 quicker than smn and other goon on Opp, numbers might have been a bit higher for us two.
Thoughts on this? Is it any good?

[CookieMonsta]

Ello guys, tried A1S with pf group.
1600 something on faust, no food no pot, only AST. Cleared
1018 on oppressor, same. No clear. I was assigned Opp 0.5 and this was my most dps uptime try, got prey'd and alarum in first phase. Apparently me and the blm downed 0.5 quicker than smn and other goon on Opp, numbers might have been a bit higher for us two.
Thoughts on this? Is it any good?

Hard to say without more context.
What was the tank composition/DPS?
What was the LB3 strat?
What was the point of failure?

[Erys]

The party was as follows: Paladin, warrior, scholar, ast, 2goons, blm and smn.
LB3 strat was none, it was a learning party.
Failure after first jump or before. 1018 is my deeps on first phase. Most mistakes came from a dps repeatedly stealing other's lasers and/or alarum (we said to take your alarum to your nearest spot and each dd got one asigned so it was always the same), causing general panic among the dd's and unnecessary rushes for another laser.