How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[SunnyHirose]

I guarantee you though, if my monk only gets 2 crits out of his IR I'm gonna hear about it.

[RapBreon]

-Snip-

When my opening Forbidden doesn't crit, I cry.

-Snip-

This is kind of the way most burst orientated classes have worked in experience throughout MMOs. It's just so noticeable because of how quick Jigglybutt likes to put a bad attempt out of its misery.

On a different note; is B4B on a MNK technically worth more than 10% (~15%ish) due to those kinds of buffs being multiplicative? Also, I presume B4B on DRG is actually worth 34.5% because of heavy thrust? Or am I wrongskis? This is independent of any conversational line, I'm just curious.

[SunnyHirose]

I don't think it's particularly helpful to think of them in those terms. We usually keep our important buffs up most of the time if we're any good at our jobs, so we experience the buff's effects relative to what buffs we'll have before and after. We are encouraged to eyeball mob HP bars and percentages rather than do mental arithmetic; after all, the official UI does not show mob HP values. I think this is the more helpful way for DPS to understand their pacing and throughput in this game. i push the buttons and the mans fall down

I actually get a poor impression of players who think how much damage they just crit for is interesting or has anything to do with DPS skill. It was predestined by the gear you brought to raid, pal! Damage is only half the equation. For the other half... that's you.

[RapBreon]

I don't think it's particularly helpful to think of them in those terms. We usually keep our important buffs up most of the time if we're any good at our jobs, so we experience the buff's effects relative to what buffs we'll have before and after. We are encouraged to eyeball mob HP bars and percentages rather than do mental arithmetic; after all, the official UI does not show mob HP values. I think this is the more helpful way for DPS to understand their pacing and throughput in this game. i push the buttons and the mans fall down

I actually get a poor impression of players who think how much damage they just crit for is interesting or has anything to do with DPS skill. It was predestined by the gear you brought to raid, pal! Damage is only half the equation. For the other half... that's you.

Hahaha, it's not like I do maths on the fly - intuition guides the way. I mostly curious from a conceptual stand-point as I didn't pay much attention to math is high-school...

Next question; is all the multiplicative buffs the reason MNKs -appear- to scale so well?

[JackFross]

I look at my initial Full Thrust crit every run so I can cry about the spread. Without potion, it's like 4900-5100 and with pot it has hit as low as 5000. I'm still not sure if it's a combination of Hypercharge falling off early sometimes and RNG or just RNG being the worst. Aside from that, I just enjoy my crit FT during Liberation cast on Ravana~ Up to 7.1k now!

I know no one cares, I just like to see big numbers.

[SunnyHirose]

Next question; is all the multiplicative buffs the reason MNKs -appear- to scale so well?

I don't understand what it means for monks to scale. Are you sharding them across a massive number of raids? :P

Monks do get more damage out of lower potencies due to their multipliers, though, yes.

[Hakmatic]

I actually get a poor impression of players who think how much damage they just crit for is interesting

Idk about you man, but I love when I see big crits, I thrive on it actually. I for sure find it interesting, so if they puts off a poor impression to you, I'm not really sure what you are looking for in a dps. I don't think I would wanna raid with someone who doesn't get excited over big crits, sounds dull and boring and like they don't give a shit about the damage they are doing. Also any good player knows a big crit has nothing to do with dps skill and if they do well, they are not good lol, but crits should put gas on the fire for those good players aswell imo. Make them wanna dps even harder.

[RapBreon]

I don't understand what it means for monks to scale. Are you sharding them across a massive number of raids? :P

Monks do get more damage out of lower potencies due to their multipliers, though, yes.

What I kind of meant was: Is one point of STR worth more to a MNK (for the above reason) than it is for a DRG. They may not scale better (to which being corrected on that point is also useful); it's just an impression I have. But at the same time I suspect the scaling is normalized - to a degree - by their difference in potencies. Or is it perfect?

Idk about you man, but I love when I see big crits, I thrive on it actually. I for sure find it interesting, so if they puts off a poor impression to you, I'm not really sure what you are looking for in a dps. I don't think I would wanna raid with someone who doesn't get excited over big crits, sounds dull and boring and like they don't give a shit about the damage they are doing. Also any good player knows a big crit has nothing to do with dps skill and if they do well, they are not good lol, but crits should put gas on the fire for those good players aswell imo. Make them wanna dps even harder.

Yeah but on the other hand you get people who won't shut up about it. I like big crits as well (because I can see tangibly how gear is affecting my damage in the best case scenario), but assholes that want to tell me about their Stone 3 crits all day are the worst. I'm happy your Wildfire crit for 8k but seriously this is the third time in as many minutes - I'm going to have R.K.O you if you don't shut up.

[Clarkamite]

Yeah but on the other hand you get people who won't shut up about it. I like big crits as well (because I can see tangibly how gear is affecting my damage in the best case scenario), but assholes that want to tell me about their Stone 3 crits all day are the worst. I'm happy your Wildfire crit for 8k but seriously this is the third time in as many minutes - I'm going to have R.K.O you if you don't shut up.

Firstly, I hit a 16.5k Fire IV on Tuesday. Secondly, RANDY ORTON OUT OF NOWHERE!!!

[SunnyHirose]

Idk about you man, but I love when I see big crits, I thrive on it actually. I for sure find it interesting, so if they puts off a poor impression to you, I'm not really sure what you are looking for in a dps.

I think it's funny that you phrase it that way, because you're not specifically saying it's the number itself that's interesting to you or an indicator of your skill. Big difference. People can buy runs till they have your gear, but they can't beat your FFLogs rank without being pretty good themselves.

Basically, there is no choice involved in it, so to me, it's just watching a computer program run, and specifically it's watching the RNG run. Slot machines don't excite me, either, for the same reason. What I value in a DPS player is a number of things like intellect, decision-making, risk-weighing, raid awareness, reaction speed, reliability. Not robotics. The simple mechanical portion of your role and gearing properly should be considered a bare minimum to serious raiding, ya? Whereas not just anyone can judge the right times to "stand in the fire", etc. Strategy game designer Sid Meier has often contended that a decent game is "a series of interesting choices". I'm inclined to agree. If there is no meaningful choice involved whatsoever, there is no problem to solve, so from a gameplay perspective it involves no skill and is therefore not interesting. To what extent interest can be generated by spectacle or for the celebration of fortune (or bemoaning of misfortune), I'd say the novelty of an extrinsic reward wears off pretty quickly and that's what a crit is, same as a flashing light saying "winner" while coins fall out. Besides, I used to play a crit sin in RO, so in this game... not so many crits (melee is love, melee is life).

To say that it "sounds dull and boring and like they don't give a shit about the damage they are doing", well, I consider watching the numbers to be dull and boring, missing the forest for the trees. The sound that crits make and knowing you made a dent in the HP bar is viscerally exciting for sure, and that does it for me. But attention is a limited resource and I try to spend it on actionable things that will make a difference; positioning, how soon to the next phase, oh no a lag spike wat do. To put it another way, when people recount tabletop game sessions, they tell you what the rolls created. Just listing the rolls devoid of a narrative makes people want to leave the room.

tl;dr It's not the size of the Lalafell in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the Lalafell.

What I kind of meant was: Is one point of STR worth more to a MNK (for the above reason) than it is for a DRG. They may not scale better (to which being corrected on that point is also useful); it's just an impression I have. But at the same time I suspect the scaling is normalized - to a degree - by their difference in potencies. Or is it perfect?

At i210, MNK gets very very slightly more DPS out of 1 STR than DRG does, yes. MNKs also have less STR.