How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

[JackFross]

Jump can stop any knockback. It tracks your position based on when you hit the button and returns you to that spot. If you time it JUST right, you'll cheese to the point that you'll only get knocked back a very tiny bit and the rest is negated. The timing is pretty tight so I tend not to try, but I suppose I should.

I usually just hold DFD on my opener in A3 and use it after the second wash away for the chase. I absolutely hate the delay that's inherent in turning around to use Elusive Jump; the only spot in current raids (that I've done so far) where I use it... I'm on 0.5 in A1S so I elusive back to it after my first B4B combo on the not-0.5, and I use it after blowing up my first gobtank in A2S to get back to the other tanks and hop in before Wave 7 so I can squeeze in as much damage as possible on the widow.

That said, I would pay SE money to make me an inverse of the /facetarget command so I could macro it to Elusive Jump.

I might actually end up doing the Doom Spike "cheese" there... I have an excess of TP assuming healers don't let me die to Sluice in P1, and the amount of GCDs I have before Equal Concentration is awkward as hell... Also makes it so I'm focusing less on attacking while I do Digititis \o/ win/win/win. And yeah, pants are a huuuge get. I'm stuck in loot hell - 3 weeks without any meaningful upgrades (Eso boots being the only piece I've gotten in the past 3 weeks that I can actually use in A3S) and next week I STILL won't be changing gear unless literally any one of the four pieces I don't currently own drop for me. The week after I gain about as much weight as when I purchased my weapon, though, so I can't complain TOO much. (Eso chest+head+gordian neck+2 coats+I can use my eso belt)

[Ilyanat]

I absolutely hate the delay that's inherent in turning around to use Elusive Jump; the only spot in current raids (that I've done so far) where I use it... I'm on 0.5 in A1S so I elusive back to it after my first B4B combo on the not-0.5, and I use it after blowing up my first gobtank in A2S to get back to the other tanks and hop in before Wave 7 so I can squeeze in as much damage as possible on the widow.

The thing is, while I absolutely agree it's rather annoying having to position oneself for elusive, a useless skill is one that's never going to be used. For example, feint is pretty much useless as no one ever discusses using feint in many situations. Elusive is a free way to negate the effects of a knockback without having to sacrifice a cd or two that could have potentially contributed more dps. Rather than wait for a knockback to use DFD or Spineshatter, use them immediately and let elusive take care of that job. I don't think it's entirely infeasible if practiced a bit, and holding down the V key switches your camera to viewing behind you so you could just hold down V then spin the camera around until the boss is on screen and use that to aim your backflip. That's my opinion at least, if a skill can do damage it should be used as soon as it's available so that it can be used again when it comes off cd. An ability sitting there on the bar not being used once for the whole fight could maybe be utilized in some way, if it's not then it's useless.

[RexMax]

Hey im running this setup atm:
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RMGI

Was before I checked the guide, no more eso for me this week.

Started raiding savage a week ago.

I try to get the 590 SKS now for the rotation, currently at 535.

I have the option to exchange my ilvl 200 bracelt for the 190 one, which puts me at
571 SKS which makes me lose about 3 strength, 39 accuracy and 3 crit. Or stick with the ilvl200 bracelet and exchange my ilvl200 chest piece for the 190 one which gives me 589 sks and +17 crit in exchange for losing 7 strength and 86 accuracy. Which puts me at a total of 595 accuracy with bufffood.

SO which one should I chose, or should i keep my current setup with the 535 sks.

[whiskeybravo]

SO which one should I chose, or should i keep my current setup with the 535 sks.

To me it looks like you have 2 options really. Get eso head piece to drop acc and raise skill speed. And/or get eso ring and neck.

There's not a huge difference if you want to wear 190 wrist for that skill speed until you get a few Gordian accessories or can afford to upgrade to another eso piece. Your left side is fine for A1 and A2. Head is a good buy, though, since it doesn't drop until a3..


Also, I went from 605 skill speed to 681 (2.40 to 2.37 gcd).. It didn't do much for my damage except making it more difficult to double weave in the opener >.< Other than that it didn't mess up BotD timing or really give me any more leeway on the timer (sometimes it actually felt like I lost some time but it could've been due to other things)

Something interesting someone was throwing around the other day is the idea of dropping Phlebotomize from the rotation altogether. With a 2.4 or lower gcd, you could get 4 gsk per minute - the timing is really tight at 2.4, but doable. I just ran numbers on it and it's only ~3 pps loss (not completely accurate, but this is like less than a 2% drop just counting base rotation + GSK damage) assuming you maintain the 4 gsk per minute. The main benefit, though, is that your TP per GCD drops from 64 to 61, significantly curbing the spending of resources. This could be really useful to employ during periods of extended uptime where TP concerns are actually significant.

I do that in dungeons to get what seems like an extra GK off, but haven't tried it anywhere else really. Driving in A2 so probably won't get a chance to try it anywhere else lol

[Shyngo]

SO which one should I chose, or should i keep my current setup with the 535 sks.

you can also eat the Deep-fried Okeanis for an extra SkS boost, alongisde the helmet upgrade only. that would put you on 600 SkS, and since you started savage a week ago(i'm assuming you're still in A1), you will have enough acc for the fight too.

[Hakmatic]

Why you guys holding so many cds? I've never used a doom spike on double hands(I'm not sure why you would do that?),I just double dot and hit them 4/5 lasers. Also I just use spineshatter for first wash away and elusive back for second. Its not that hard to aim it after you get used to it.

[SunnyHirose]

Why you guys holding so many cds? I've never used a doom spike on double hands(I'm not sure why you would do that?),I just double dot and hit them 4/5 lasers. Also I just use spineshatter for first wash away and elusive back for second. Its not that hard to aim it after you get used to it.

Spineshatter is the only one I hold. A lot of groups you'll see DRGs hold back a bit because they need to get past Hand of Pain (which I can understand... don't agree with it, but I can understand). My reasoning for holding the Spineshatter Dive is because my group uses Holmgang on the first and nothing for the second. It is therefore much safer to use the Elusive towards a fixed target and Spineshatter towards one that might be heading towards a tank on the opposite side of the arena from you in a second, and then possibly get dragged further if the tanks are too close to each other. Then the potential second gap-close if your last Hands mechanic is Prayer.

The theorycrafting behind Doom Spike on two targets is more than I care to get into right now because it's not as simple as just see 2 targets -> Doom Spike (I mean, it blows Full Thrust out of the water, but still). For A3, it's also got a lot to do with the timings of the hand phase, the time the BotD timer comes back up, and so forth. Where I can leave it for now is that the primary weakness of double-DoTing is that the Chaos thrust has to pay off almost all the way. Nor should you forsake Disembowel on the bard's primary target (which should be the same as yours) either, because at the very least you don't have the TP for that without a Goad. But the idea that 440 potency / 60 seconds is worth sacrificing a few rounds of 336 / 2.4 seconds should be regarded as a wut, at least.

It is just fine to double DoT, and you will beat out someone going single target only (which in itself is all that is necessary), but I'm confident that due to the timings on everything and the nature of the few opportunities you have to even attempt it, you do squeeze out a few extra potency with Doom Spike. Prove me wrong!

(edit: should also note that Elysium's world first video has a demonstration at about 2:20)

[whiskeybravo]

I was kinda curious if the DS would math out better, but don't want to get started on that lol. I've been dotting them both up as well, trying to make sure I haven't just refreshed them on the wrong one for equal concentration. Still figuring it out though.

[Hakmatic]

I was kinda curious if the DS would math out better, but don't want to get started on that lol. I've been dotting them both up as well, trying to make sure I haven't just refreshed them on the wrong one for equal concentration. Still figuring it out though.

I just dont think you can get 4-5 lasers on double hands if you are using DS, you would just be wasting precious botd timer, and GK is 40 more potency per target then DS. You can just also keep up your normal rotation if you dont use DS.

[Thendiel]

One problem with Doom Spike spam before Equilibrium is that it could reduce the DPS output of your group's BRD/MCH during the Equilibrium check if the high-HP hand doesn't have Disembowel active. I just throw Dis and CT up on both of them for this reason.

Did we ever come to a consensus on the best approach for phase 1 of A3S? I know it's been a recurring topic of discussion, but everyone seems to do it their own way. In order to accomodate that awkward 22 GCD window (sometimes it's 23, depending on animation speeds, skill speed, etc.), I've been running with:

HT-ID-Dis-CT-4th
Ph-TT-VT-FT-4th
HT-ID-Dis-CT-4th
Ph-TT-VT-FT
ID-Dis-CT-HT (HT buff activates even if the damage doesn't go out)

Ignoring that 4th combo hit at the end feels a little weird, but I can still land 3 Geirskoguls with this approach, and Living Liquid will be debuffed with Disembowel when he reappears. Anyway, this is just something I came up with semi-randomly; I'd love to hear input from people who've thought about that phase more rigorously.