Please Implement Auto-Reclaim on Disconnect (90% success, 10% failure)

[Katlyna]

80% success rate, with a 90% shot to regain ingredients the other 20% of the time? You have nothing to complain about there, imo. There's still a chance for failure, true, but I still maintain that a system with a 100% chance of success is a pretty boring one, even if it results in the occasional disastrous loss. There's not a lot of thrill in victory if there's no consequences for defeat.

I concur with your general comment there, noting that if you are a "smarter" crafter with more experience you should be able to achieve a higher success rate, which is currently true. I find it interesting this discussion has gone from a simple talk about what should happen on disconnection to NQ vs HQ rates and the use of reclaim period. Its made me lol

[RiceisNice]

It depends on how you've designed your crafting strategy. I use Waste Not II pretty often, but only when I feel it is the best option at the "critical point" in my synth. My crafting strategy is designed with maximum flexibility in mind, and I don't believe that my HQ yields would be anywhere near as high if I was stuck to a predetermined pathway.

The thing is, you'r more-or-less predetermined when using something like WNII. You want to use at least 7 out of the 8 hits, otherwise every step you aren't using it is wasted (thus most people have it pre-determined with 5 HT+SHII and 2 CSII to use up those 7 steps). And everything after that becomes a flowchart at that point; Good but no SH? TotT. TotT at least once before this point? Use Precise Touch. etc etc. There's far too few meaningful variables for "making smart decisions" to be the case imo.

...

It's all confirmation bias and depending on the perspective you want to go for. Some people believe RNG has no place in crafting as long as you know how to access the situation and change your approach as such (which is the difference between succeeding the craft and minimizing the losses from a craft). Especially when you're handling high-profile crafts which well...previously required an average of 90 minutes just to gather for (and multiply that by how many of those mats you actually need, like 4 of them for a mainhand).


That being said though, along with confirmation bias, there is the off chance where you can get a whole string of failed touches touches throughout the craft, and the good conditions themselves are already incredibly scarce (where 5 out of 7 crafts I had no good conditions the entire time). 80% is still 80%, and you don't need a whole lot of that 20% for the craft to go south to a >90% HQ rate. I've personally had my own crafting spree where out of my 7 crafts, at least 3 of them had gone south because I either failed more than 3 hasty touches, 3 flawless synthesis, or both (which also has happened). And unlikely as it is, it's still pretty damn shitty because me as a crafter, the only way I can access that situation is "Hope I get an excellent and not mess up that/Hope I get goods when WNII isn't active" if we were talking about succeeding the craft....and that feels like more praying to RNG than working with what I get honestly.

Sure it "evens" out if you get a larger sample size, but unlike previously, you cant mass produce material items like this because of the red scrips (thus lowering your sample size to a very very small amount compared to say, wootz ingots or kirimu leather)

On a side note, awareness has too long of a cooldown to be usable for all tank busters. If we were to take the current tank busters (which hit for well around 25k unmitigated) and let those be critable, we're looking at 32k damage, you'd need over 50% mitigation (and they're multiplicative last I checked, stacking cool downs that is) to survive it, and that's barely by the hair of your chinny chin chin since most full-vit tanks currently are barely breaking 19k. Outside of tank busters, you have cleaves that hit for around 7-9k, but those are usually mixed in with raid wide AoE that also hit for around 9k to the entire party. The outgoing damage in a fight is a very delicate thing and you don't want there to be an instance where it becomes a instant loss-condition because something crit and the damage is more than you can heal without requiring cooldowns (nor is it something you can predict and you obviously can't be pre-emptive on every possible-crit instance), and said cooldowns are already needed for certain parts of the fight because the damage is excessive as it is when it comes to raid damage.


If they wanted awareness to play an active role in mitigating tank busters, then the tank busters themselves need to be a guaranteed crit and the numbers tuned appropriately. There's only a few applications with Awareness, only two instances I can name off the top of my head where you're dealing with close to 100% crit rate (electric node in T11 and Shiva /w Bow), and preventing crits from RI as a warrior.

[LineageRazor]

On a side note, awareness has too long of a cooldown to be usable for all tank busters. If we were to take the current tank busters (which hit for well around 25k unmitigated) and let those be critable, we're looking at 32k damage, you'd need over 50% mitigation (and they're multiplicative last I checked, stacking cool downs that is) to survive it, and that's barely by the hair of your chinny chin chin since most full-vit tanks currently are barely breaking 19k.

Well, yes, that's why I specifically said "I could see disabling crits on things like tank buster attacks". When an attack is specifically designed to almost-kill a tank on a non-crit, allowing crits there is just unfair. I still maintain, though, that crits should be allowed on cleaves, raid-wide attacks, and so on, with the caveat that such attacks have their normal damage lowered a bit so that the total average damage over time is maintained. It's okay to give your healers heart attacks from time to time due to unexpected crits, and it gives your DPS even more incentive to stay outside of telegraphs and cleaves!

[Katlyna]

And everything after that becomes a flowchart at that point; Good but no SH? TotT. TotT at least once before this point? Use Precise Touch. etc etc. There's far too few meaningful variables for "making smart decisions" to be the case imo.

I concur you have a very good point here. That a group of smart people can basically chop up a craft at a given star/difficulty level figure out a few "best" options A), B), and C) and then as you said flowchart the exact optimal option when a given situation occurs.

Personally I think this problem stems from two issues:
A) Item progress must be completed at the end.
B) Byregot's is superior at the end and often grants ~20-40% of an items quality.

If these two limitations were changed/removed then things would change notable. For instance if you could complete 100% of your progress at any time and instead your synthesis ends when durability reaches 0 (or less) then progress could be done dynamically. Rather than trying to hit an exact mark you could try more dangerous options without concern of overshooting.

Similar to the progress problem. Having Byregot's complete half your quality is terrible. If combat relied on similar mechanics where DPS had to get X stacks and then assassinate bosses at 50% life... we would get some really bizarre binary strategies for DPS. Quality should be something you chip away at any way you can dynamically throughout the rotation. Small rotations should be useful but a single rotation should not span the entire synth. Specialist rotations hinted at the possibility of this type of synthing, but failed because Byregot's is simply superior.

Anyway if they were to combine both of these ideologies into the current system, we would suddenly end up with truly dynamic crafting since you don't have to hit an exact mark, rather you are rewarded for making smart dynamic choices to push progress and quality as quick and efficiently as you can given your current state.

[Sibyll]

And everything after that becomes a flowchart at that point; Good but no SH? TotT. TotT at least once before this point? Use Precise Touch. etc etc. There's far too few meaningful variables for "making smart decisions" to be the case imo.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said in your last few posts. It's what I was trying to get at, but couldn't be bothered to keep explaining it anymore to these two.

I think there are more interesting ways to design crafting than around slot machine success rates and big HP bars. Raiders would get pretty sick of every boss getting more HP and hitting harder with everything else remaining the same, so I don't really see why crafting should be any different.

[MN_14]

The thing is, you'r more-or-less predetermined when using something like WNII. You want to use at least 7 out of the 8 hits, otherwise every step you aren't using it is wasted (thus most people have it pre-determined with 5 HT+SHII and 2 CSII to use up those 7 steps). And everything after that becomes a flowchart at that point; Good but no SH? TotT. TotT at least once before this point? Use Precise Touch. etc etc. There's far too few meaningful variables for "making smart decisions" to be the case imo.

I agree that the crafting system is flow chart like by nature, but I also believe that there's more to it than simply deciding when or when not to use TotT/precise touch/basic touch. My personal flow chart is quite a bit more detailed.

To be honest, the kind of approach you're describing is pre 2.4 and works well now because of the reduced difficulty of the crafts in general and higher base CP available. You have to remember that WNII is a large CP investment and that it could be used for other purposes other than 5 HT and 2 CS2. Using it in that manner is CP efficient, but you're also sacrificing flexibility. It works well under average rng, but when things go south, flexibility is key to pulling yourself out of trouble as best as you can.

You mention using tricks of the trade when SH is down. But is that always a good idea? Why not use tricks when SH2 is up? As long as you keep treating good/excellent procs as mere bonuses, you're limiting your options.

Hypothetically speaking, if you managed to get 40 CP or 60 CP during and immediately after the flawless synthesis phase when SH is down, would you take the craft in the same direction?

[Katlyna]

We need something.. the current state of affairs is terrible. Especially since many disconnections are their servers themselves.

[Silverbane]

If the Auto-Reclaim-on-DC only kicks in if:

1. Reclaim is a Class skill or is cross-classed in, and
2. The crafters has enough CP to perform the reclaim,

I see no problem with this feature, though I'd probably never use it.
I see no way to abuse it, since it is effectively the same as the player manually activating Reclaim.

That said, I'd rather they spent the resources on fixing the DC's instead, if that's possible and they have to make a choice. In a perfect world they'd add this and fix the DC's.

[Katlyna]

That said, I'd rather they spent the resources on fixing the DC's instead, if that's possible and they have to make a choice. In a perfect world they'd add this and fix the DC's.

I concur. I'm a performance engineer at work and analyzing memory, CPU and network problems (etc) is part of my job. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt the servers are just dropping people sometimes somewhere between the last ping outside their lab and to the servers themselves. They have got to fix the connection problem fundamentally and I to hope they invest in this before giving us some other features we don't need.

[Sibyll]

If the Auto-Reclaim-on-DC only kicks in if:

1. Reclaim is a Class skill or is cross-classed in, and
2. The crafters has enough CP to perform the reclaim,

I see no problem with this feature, though I'd probably never use it.
I see no way to abuse it, since it is effectively the same as the player manually activating Reclaim.

That said, I'd rather they spent the resources on fixing the DC's instead, if that's possible and they have to make a choice. In a perfect world they'd add this and fix the DC's.

In a perfect world the game would be capable of saving your progress because there is no reason I should be forced to use a Reclaim because the shit server 90k me.