More Horizontal Progression please

[Aeyis]

This conversation #smh way off topic and getting facetious.

Like every other topic where whiteknights enter the fray?

[Ibi]

No, you cannot. You might have a different idea of what powerleveling is, or a pretty low standard for it if you feel powerleveling is possible here.

How fast do you have to be able to power level someone for it to meet your criteria for power leveling?

Also, now you're back in the thread, did you have any answers to my questions for you at the end of this post?

[Pesh]

I prefer horizontal progression to vertical progression. It allows more customization to a character instead of one constant best set of gear. It also means your content stays relevant for longer than a couple of months.

[Sandpark]

Pulling tons of monsters and destroying them = fun.
Doing the exact same thing in FATES = mindless and zergy.

Okay then.

The numbers don't necessarily dictate fun. Crunching through 100 enemies with little chance of dying & 1-2 hit kills is hack n slash whether pulling or not.(pulling can be abused in those cases)

What separates a deep system from that is pulls that require forethought from different members. In a zone of things stronger than you when outnumbered. The puller has to study the path of where to pull a single target & assess which monsters will link if pulled at desired moment.

If the puller pulls at a bad time, it could result in more enemies than the party can handle.Assuming the puller did a good job, the tanks job is to get emnity from the strongest enemy/enemies. Then other jobs will either put some kind of control on certain monsters, and if those monsters are hit or awakened by someone in the party. That could spell bad trouble.It adds an additional emergent element to gameplay.

What makes any mmorpg fun for me is thought and figuring out stuff as long as I don't have to resort to google more than playing the game.

The renkei system also added a dynamic/synergistic,emergent element to gameplay. Here you can buff other players as well. But there is no system that requires real time synergistic coordination and skill combinations to enhance party dynamics, they used to have a regiment system at launch.

The renkei system became less used as time went on because people found it easier to gain xp killing squishier/weaker monsters rather than fighting harder stuff that required the renkei and magic burst. It was a design decision, whether or not that was intended or unintentional is beyond me.
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Skillchains
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Burst

FFXI was known to be a hardcore game, not in terms of difficulty but as having really thoughtful, deep systems, and everything took forever to accomplish(ugh). I don't have another 8 years to dedicate to this game solely. But I sure wish some of that stuff from that game could come here minus the incredibly long time investment and padded stuff.
Anyways, why are we talking about this? I thought this thread was about horizontal progression.

[Ibi]

What separates a deep system from that is pulls that require forethought from different members.

Right. It was Nektulos-Tuor's use of the word "destroy" that was what I was trying to make the point over. It initially sounded like he was comparing two similar situations and calling one fun and the other mindless and zergy.

Destroy didn't, to me, imply forethought. Nektulos-Tuor agreed, in retrospect, and rephrased.

In a zone of things stronger than you when outnumbered. The puller has to study the path of where to pull a single target & assess which monsters will link if pulled at desired moment.

Yeah, I was the main puller for my Dynamis shell for a couple of years, so having to strategize pulls is a concept I'm not completely unfamiliar with.

What makes any mmorpg fun for me is thought and figuring out stuff as long as I don't have to resort to google more than playing the game.

The renkei system also added a dynamic/synergistic,emergent element to gameplay.

It wasn't the most intuitive system though. Without resorting to Google (or relying on someone else's knowledge), the only way to know what skill chained to what was trial and error.

And while there was the opportunity for dynamic, emergent game play, it didn't happen that much in practice; you grabbed someone who could open Distortion (or Light at higher levels) and someone who could close it, and they were the skill chain.

Or, as you say, abandoned them completely in the ToAU era onwards.

FFXI was known to be a hardcore game, not in terms of difficulty but as having really thoughtful, deep systems, and everything took forever to accomplish(ugh).

Some of it was deep and thoughtful, but a lot of it was just non-intuitive and unnecessarily complicated.

Anyways, why are we talking about this? I thought this thread was about horizontal progression.

We're not going to go 40-something pages in a thread like this without getting off topic, the same way that no thread about game play that gets past about three pages isn't going to mention both WoW and FFXI. It's unavoidable.

Besides, it's relevant in that while people do want more content, it's important that that content be fun and engaging, otherwise we'll just end up having this conversation again two weeks later. So it's worth establishing what fun and engaging would be.

[Sandpark]

And while there was the opportunity for dynamic, emergent game play, it didn't happen that much in practice; you grabbed someone who could open Distortion (or Light at higher levels) and someone who could close it, and they were the skill chain.

Yeah, that goes into that idea of illusion of choice, Skillchains could be done better if every SC was equally powerful in certain situations and situations didn't skew towards one element, same as most monsters being weak to ice or thunder versus being equally distributed across various content.

[Synestra]

I really think this is a "grass is greener" post.

Horizontal Progression sounds great in light of all the vertical progression we currently have, but yeah.. Low drop rates and one piece of gear for a group of 8 ppl per week is kinda absurd. the Forums would gripe about the "wall" that is RNG and .0001% drops in a heartbeat.

Atma drops were pretty good indicator that FFXIV community does not like lowdrop RNG things.

[FizzleofHyperion]

Hey guys! I hope the GMs and Yoshi P finally took into consideration how most of us are displeased with how the game is going now. They closed the other thread that was discussing why the game got so repetative pretty much what we are discussing here ourselves but with the horizontal progression touch. Do you guys think something will change or we are stuck with the same formula?

[Nadirah]

No, you cannot. You might have a different idea of what powerleveling is, or a pretty low standard for it if you feel powerleveling is possible here.




Game enjoyment is all about how it's delivered. Combat in this game is pretty..uninteresting. Fates don't bring anything interesting to it either.
In a fate the monsters or objectives are always the same. Kill x amount of monsters. X never changes. The monster for that fate never changes. The abilities it uses are..wait, monsters use abilities?



Game enjoyment is all about how it's delivered.

Yes, I wrote that twice. Probably a reason for it too.

Actually, yes you can.

This job was powerleveled for a good chunk of it.

Go find a spot of super heavy mob density with a healer out of group. Tag EVERYTHING. They'll rip aggro off you with a regen, but you get kill credit. Hit everything a few times, holy spam, win.

Works just fine.

[Nadirah]

Hey guys! I hope the GMs and Yoshi P finally took into consideration how most of us are displeased with how the game is going now. They closed the other thread that was discussing why the game got so repetative pretty much what we are discussing here ourselves but with the horizontal progression touch. Do you guys think something will change or we are stuck with the same formula?

Duplicate thread.

They tend to close those.