More Horizontal Progression please

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Sure, but expecting it to be achieved in a MMO that is already coded is foolhardy. Alot of these things you guys are discussing would completely change the feel and focus of this game.

I'm not talking about this game. This game is set in stone.

I guess I'm missing your point here. SWG is old and failing, so no company in their right mind is gonna use this as a template for success. 3000-4000 players would be a pittance for even a small game company. Additionally, making any sort of twitch gameplay in a MMO does two things:
1. You need the server speed to deal with the pings. With over a million subscribers in XIV that would require a vast network.
2. You are limiting the type of gamer that will buy your product. There are a ton of players that love MMO style combat for its simplicity. Maybe they prefer it or they have a disability that hinders their ability to react quickly to a stimulus. MMO's give that type of gamer a clear and achievable goal.

SWG never "failed" it had a million subscribers at its peak and this was before WoW and MMOs were popular in general. Starwars in MMOs made it have a niche audience since it wasn't Fantasy it was Scifi. Scifi MMOs are NOT as popular as fantasy ones.

2000-4000 Players is only on the Emu's players playing. There are only 2000-4000 players playing a server in FFXIV right now. I am not talking about Subscribers.

FFXIV is a extremely casual game. It's meant to be that way. Why is it that everyone wants to change that so badly?

Not wanting to change it. That isn't part of the current discussion.



No, because you have to be able to assure yourself a payday at the end of it. Why do you think we are seeing things like reboots of movies and all the superhero movies. They are cash cows that are guaranteed money. It's not about creativity or the human spirit flying around in a colorful rainbow. The gaming industry has to make money to stay active.

Indeed, however making too much of the same thing means as soon as the next big thing comes out your game is deserted. Movies only profit like this because you already get your pay out of it.

Corrected you there.

It seems like you have never played an MMO before 2005. Honestly, that is what I see.

I feel sorry for gamers these days. They will never experience true beauty.

[karateorangutang]

In regards to it not concerning this game:

Maybe this should be in a different thread altogether then. I was pretty sure we were talking about FFXIV since we are in those forums.

In regards to SWG:

If servers are shutting down... then its a failure. Whether or not it was huge at one point is really irrelevant. Its failing because its not what an audience wants.

Concerning the success of MMO's

The WoW formula is guaranteed money. You take it and you twist it slightly and you walk away with a pay day. Ford doesn't change the Mustang randomly to make it more marketable. They keep it familiar to keep people comfortable. People like comfortable.

[Magis]

In regards to SWG:

If servers are shutting down... then its a failure. Whether or not it was huge at one point is really irrelevant. Its failing because its not what an audience wants.

lol, I don't think you know what a failure is. By your definition, every MMO is a failure because one day they will be shut down.

In regards to it not concerning this game:

Concerning the success of MMO's

The WoW formula is guaranteed money. You take it and you twist it slightly and you walk away with a pay day. Ford doesn't change the Mustang randomly to make it more marketable. They keep it familiar to keep people comfortable. People like comfortable.

Guaranteed to make money that's why every MMO that copied WoW lasted for years and made tons of ca.... OH WAIT:

Oh sorry, the current strategy is to just go F2P and turn the game into bigger trash.



WoW's design past TBC/WotLK (which ARR Xeroxed off of) is so good, that is why they haven't dropped in subs.... OH WAIT:



(Someone added the last part for WoD, but as of Aug, is at 5.6Mil: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/08/0...-to-56-million)

I love how people point to Post-TBC as some epitome of MMO grateness when WoW's been losing subs left and right.

[karateorangutang]

snip

Let me rephrase failure then. It's a failure in the current market.

The forumla works. That the same thing as saying a movie staring batman that only has 300 k of funding will be a success. There are more variables at work then just the type of game.

[Magis]

Let me rephrase failure then. It's a failure in the current market.

The forumla works. That the same thing as saying a movie staring batman that only has 300 k of funding will be a success. There are more variables at work then just the type of game.

Except for all the MMOs that failed under WoW's model and either are stagnant or went F2P. Tera, ESO, SWOR... the only one I can think of that hasn't been a failure is EVE Online and funny enough, that is an earlier 2003ish MMO that decided to go against the "formula".

The formula doesn't work, why? Because people who want to play WoW are already playing WoW. People who quit WoW are bored of WoW's system and want something else. FFXIV is actually an interesting anomaly, mostly being backed by brand due to the large population of people who "never played an MMO before" as well as the unique circumstances of it's creation (1.0 the giant failure, 2.0 success). However, the WoW formula had little to do with it's success since if it was the case, the other clones should have also been.

The fact there even is a "formula" shows how stagnant and manufactured MMOs are these days. Gone are the days of creating a virtual world for people to "live"/"adventure" in... now it's a giant content delivery system with a new coat of paint or some gimmick.

[karateorangutang]

Except for all the MMOs that failed under WoW's model and either are stagnant or went F2P. Tera, ESO, SWOR... the only one I can think of that hasn't been a failure is EVE Online and funny enough, that is an earlier 2003ish MMO that decided to go against the "formula".

The formula doesn't work, why? Because people who want to play WoW are already playing WoW. People who quit WoW are bored of WoW's system and want something else. FFXIV is actually an interesting anomaly, mostly being backed by brand due to the large population of people who "never played an MMO before" as well as the unique circumstances of it's creation (1.0 the giant failure, 2.0 success). However, the WoW formula had little to do with it's success since if it was the case, the other clones should have also been.

The fact there even is a "formula" shows how stagnant and manufactured MMOs are these days. Gone are the days of creation a virtual world for people to "live" in... now it's a giant content delivery system with a new coat of paint or some gimmick.

Except alot of people that played WoW are now here... and alot of people play this game.

SWOR was bioware's first foray into a real actual MMO.
ESO was developed by Zenimax which is a subsidiary from Bethesda... they didn't even participate in development outside of naming it.
Tera was made by Bluehole studios.... yup you guessed it low funding.

SE has capital. They can push this sort of thing to it's potential because of that. If you make a race car out of aluminum foil and a toothpick it wont go very fast. It's not the design, its the materials and money that can be pushed into it.

[Magis]

SWOR was bioware's first foray into a real actual MMO.
ESO was developed by Zenimax which is a subsidiary from Bethesda... they didn't even participate in development outside of naming it.
Tera was made by Bluehole studios.... yup you guessed it low funding.

SE has capital. They can push this sort of thing to it's potential because of that. If you make a race car out of aluminum foil and a toothpick it wont go very fast. It's not the design, its the materials and money that can be pushed into it.

You kinda avoided my statement though: Money isn't going to make a boring game not boring, and the circumstances of their design choices doesn't change the fact they chose WoW's system and the failure that happened because of it. SE too had little time to rewrite the game so they decided to copy WoW and omitted or reused a lot of content (yet it didn't seem to change after HW either).