More Horizontal Progression please

[lawlHT]

How is standing around doing nothing for 2+ hours less tedious than actually actively doing something in hopes of a drop?

[Luciano_Bozzelli]

Yeah I like the guy's post who listed all the things you can do in Final Fantasy XI, and stated what people hated about them... But what people are failing to realize is that all that content was released at different times, and still remained relevant, years apart... Hell in 2014 I ran Dynamis with my Blu solo everyday that I could, just because getting exp in there was upgrading my AF+2 clothes. Yeah I had Seekers of Audolin, but there were NM's to camp with my chick...

I wish people would stop saying this game isn't FFXI, and we should let go of the past... To better ourselves we look at our past mistakes and successes. For Square enix not taking great examples from FFXI and not implementing them is a waste of years and years of data in which they succeeded... Get off of WoW's and this new MMO trend, take a stand and take your game to that next level, where the options of what to do are endless.

[JudgeN]

How is standing around doing nothing for 2+ hours less tedious than actually actively doing something in hopes of a drop?

Because I didn't have to pay attention and deal with idiots like I did in world of darkness. Besides LL could spawn after 5 minutes of camping, may RNG be with you.

[Luciano_Bozzelli]

How is standing around doing nothing for 2+ hours less tedious than actually actively doing something in hopes of a drop?

It's not the standing around we remember... It's the waking up in the wee hours of the morning to see if somebody was at your camping spot, hiding around a rock to monitor that man running around killing lizards. Should I come out of invisible and show myself... Should i let him keep killing lizards and stick around to see if leaping lizzy pops? Who is that guy? I wonder how he got that earring? (might I add that is something that never gets wondered around ffxiv, we know how to obtain everything).

And might I add, camping for 2+ hours in hopes of getting that drop, meant you had an item that would last for a very long time, and get a lot of use from it. Over years worth of use, not just I beat Alex regular I got my body peice tokens, and a week later that body peice is avg and damn near useless even though it took me 4 weeks to get it!

Working real hard to camp NM's to upgrade my Law gear to 180 for it to get replaced the second i step in Alex normal, that hard worked upgraded jewelry was outdated within days!! Days!! You know how fast I had to run to those NM's before they died, how I had to keep my ear to the linkshells, and the area shouts... I spent a lot of hours doing that kind of camping too, but I don't use that gear anymore do I? What's the difference?

[Sandpark]

@Nadirah
Look, I don't care if the game is vertical or horizontal much. The main things I want is:
-All content to stay relevant and non trivial
-Gear to last longer than one patch before being tossed
-More variety of events
-More open world

If vertical can achieve that via Progression server,sidekick, level sync, or some other means, then vertical could work too.
I have yet to see one post besides maybe the EQ post even hinting remotely to that in a vertical based system.

I have fond memories of FFXI, but there is a middle ground between wanting to spend ten years to achieve things or in one or two patches.

[Nadirah]

I prefer *not* keeping content relevant. I don't like doing old stuff unless it's something I can solo because its outleveled.

Didn't kill Arthas until 2013. Does the fact it wasn't relevant bug me? No.

Was in a realm first kill of Trakanon back when I played EQ2. Did I care the loot was replaced with the next expansion? No.

I don't care that gear isn't relevant later, that it's replaced in a month. I want new things to kill, more often. The sheer thought of having to go camp a level 7 drop at 75 because I need it for some reason is repulsive.

[Sandpark]

Well you and I have different preferences. But on a side note, look at all the work that goes into creating worlds. People complain about not enough content, well if all the content gets outleveled each patch/expansion, that creates a void because developers have to either develop new content twice as fast or go back and retro update old content.

Just look at FFXIV. Instead of focusing on brand new dungeons and zones totally, we are getting normal/hard/extreme/savage modes of the same areas with a different flavor.

Did I kill every NM in FFXI? No. Does that fact that it was relevant bug me? No

It's not just about not caring if gear isn't relevant later, the world isn't relevant either unless you start over. And by then, hopefully there will still be people needing things when you decide to start over.

FFXI never had an issues of fighting new monsters outside experience points best spot camp parties and it was horizontal. They don't have to do extremes by making level 7 gear applicable to an endgame gear set.

The rule of any offline rpg without new game plus or a same level across all zones is once you get high level, you have seen all the world has to offer. And in an mmo which strives to capture players for thousands of hours, breaking and rebuilding the whole world every patch and expansion is not sustainable.

Which is one reason why so many people mmo hop nowadays.

[Nadirah]

I'm here because I like what it is. When the game changes to something I don't like, I move on.

It's why after 10 years of both wow and EQ2 I finally moved on... They became things I didn't like.

I like what FFXIV is *now*. Changing it, I'll leave here too.

[Fendred]

Probably the most important reason to introduce the odd horizontal progression patch or expansion is to help prevent straining the level system. Eventually, leveling has to be made faster to get people to max level in a reasonable time, and that messes up the pacing of the game. There are some other side effects of raising the level cap, like the inclusion of new, albeit disconnected, zones to the game. It's alright to add a few such zones, but after a while it can start to increasingly isolate players from each other. So any suggestion to add horizontal progression should probably be accompanied with a request to spend time expanding current zones instead of only adding new ones, even if that means having to break it up into several smaller zones that share the same chat.

Both WoW and EQ2 have level bumps that go straight to end game, EQ2's being free of charge and WoW's being a paid service. These were added because players simply didn't want to go through the leveling experience, which became problematic after many years of raising the level cap. So much of WoW is like an abandoned ghost town, it doesn't make sense to follow in its footsteps.

[Sandpark]

I'm here because I like what it is. When the game changes to something I don't like, I move on.

It's why after 10 years of both wow and EQ2 I finally moved on... They became things I didn't like.

I like what FFXIV is *now*. Changing it, I'll leave here too.

Fair enough, at least you stick to your guns. There is probably some people who will leave if it doesn't change. I am not that sore on things atm to up and leave for good myself. Just want to see some changes.