More Horizontal Progression please

[Nadirah]

Gearing with horizontal progression works really well with a diablo 3 (or FFXI) style of itemization, eg items that alter how your spells work. It wouldn't work very well in FFXIV, where gears only have flat stats increase on them. But well, glamour could be the point.



FFXI had like 700 k subscribers back in 2006, which is the same amount that FFXIV had in april 2015 (last time we had numbers).

Don't think they've ever given subscriber count for 14, only accounts registered.

[FizzleofHyperion]

Hi all! I'm Skizzles irl friend who is also in this thread. He convienced me to leave FFXI for this. Sometimes I enjoy the fast progress of this game and how easy it is cause it makes me catch up really fast. I'm level 18 in like a few hours on my first job?!? So Im guessing the game will still be just as fast levling everything else. Many people in this thread are saying the negative sides with Horizontal progression. Again there is no need to dumb the situation down. Instead explain to SE how it should be done to maintain a balance. I don't want a new FFXI I don't have time to spend my life to a game but I do miss the challenge and when stuff is rewarding. I'm not that type of person that appreciates handouts and I can see how alot of people on Hyperion are kinda pissed on this Vertical Treadmill progression.
There is no balance atm imo it just caters to one side and thats the new players/casuals. I'm not sure this has been mentioned before but I don't think someone is doing anyone a favour with Alexander Savage (I've watched my friends play AS1-3). Original content needs to be a bit harder aswell so it feels you earned your level and the gears atleast. Ofcourse not some mindless korean grind fest but again some sort of balance.
I like this game but I don't want it to turn into the MMORPG thats like everything else but with a FF theme. The open world really feels empty compared to FFXI. I feel like I don't fit in Eorzea since I spend more time on DF and at my FC house than actually doing in world content (gathering/fishing/mining doesnt count).
I would also just like to add that I think SE might be underestimating the players too. The gear stats I guess are fine when you start out playing FFXIV but I wouldnt mind some -10% damage taken etc like in FFXI. I understand you need to balance a whole game around that too so it might not be possible but its a suggestion. Prefering more gears for one job would be nice too. Like an item could be used by all jobs endgame (not glamours spare me the troll replies).
Ofcourse some of these things are wishful thinking. I also heard from my FC members that the relics are really easy to obtain in FFXIV? The question to this if someone can answer this is why? If this game is so easy like everyone else says it is why is there no gear an items that can actually be enjoyable and rewarding horizontal progression wise?

[Nadirah]

Why do I believe that's just Skizzle on another character?

[FizzleofHyperion]

Nadirah feel free to come over to Hyperion and see for yourself

[Astral145]

Agreed I would rather have horizontal progression than vertical progression. I just wish they did something more with the current gear. Its too bland and it gets outdated way to fast. I would rather have 3 types of gear. Tomes, raid and special gear. The special gear is for you to gain new traits or upgrade old traits and skills by spirit bonding the special gear.

The Tome and raid gear/weapons would have special slots kinda like materia slots so you can add special enhanced stats like a % boosts to dmg to bards when not singing a song or increased heals on certain skills and increased potency to songs on bards....ect. You would have to grind out dungeons and other content to get these special materias to add to your normal gear.

They can give sub roles to each job by implementing certain special materias for the normal gear progression. For example they could turn bards into rangers while not in tp/mp battery mode. By simply adding a special Ranger materia to a bow it will boost the damage of the weapon to even out with other dps's but if you sing a song the weapon damage will drop back to normal.

There is so much more I can add to this but what I'm trying to say is the devs need to stop with the vertical climb and give us something worth grinding for.

[Nadirah]

I highly doubt they're going to up and change how the *entire game* works because some of you want it to be something it isn't.

And I'm pretty sure that if they did, sub numbers would tank.

I do this quite often, but I'd like to again refer you to the Daedalus project:

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/

This man spent *years* studying who plays MMOs and why, as well as what and how.

The sheer time investment required by the type of progression you're asking for simply *will not* work with current players.

The very reason content lasted that long was because desirable drops had shitty drop rates. Most casual gamers don't have the time or desire to invest in that.

[Nadirah]

And by "years" I mean 10. And by number of surveys analyzed I mean over 70,000.

[Hix]

Horizontal progression is not progression. It's being stuck in the same place forever. Vertical progression works because that carrot at the end of the stick is so damn tasty. In horizontal progression, the optimal builds become evident real fast. Any carrot that doesn't improve on the optimal build will not be chased. Eventually you will have the fully optimal build and know that barring changes in game balance you will never be able to improve. And then you get bored and quit.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

The very reason content lasted that long was because desirable drops had shitty drop rates. Most casual gamers don't have the time or desire to invest in that.

It did always give them something to work for though. Unlike today's games.

2% Drop rate for a fabled was "crappy" however, the bonus it gave made the dungeon so much easier. The gear made a huge impact on the dungeon's difficulty. You felt MORE powerful compared to other people.

None of the loot in this game "excites me". I am not encouraged to do anything. This is probably the most boring September i've ever had. =P

Horizontal progression is not progression. It's being stuck in the same place forever. Vertical progression works because that carrot at the end of the stick is so damn tasty. In horizontal progression, the optimal builds become evident real fast. Any carrot that doesn't improve on the optimal build will not be chased. Eventually you will have the fully optimal build and know that barring changes in game balance you will never be able to improve. And then you get bored and quit.

That is why you have both Horizontal and Vertical progression.

You really must have played a "VERY" bad Horizontal Progression game.

[Xatsh]

Horizontal progression is not progression. It's being stuck in the same place forever. Vertical progression works because that carrot at the end of the stick is so damn tasty. In horizontal progression, the optimal builds become evident real fast. Any carrot that doesn't improve on the optimal build will not be chased. Eventually you will have the fully optimal build and know that barring changes in game balance you will never be able to improve. And then you get bored and quit.

People keep using this argument but then why are the more horizontal (non-pvp based mmos) the longest living mmos out there still.

If people will get bored and quit. Why Did EQ and FFXI have a turn over about 1/10th the size of current mmos? Why dd the same people day and in day out play for 10s of thousands of hours?

Horizontal progression does not mean lack of new content. It just means old content is not thrown away when new stuff is added. And if you have to stop thinking of gear an linear for it work in Horizontal. There is no 1 BIS piece in horizontal. There are many. Each with different effects

I really think the main opponents of horizontal growth are either those who never played a game with it, or played a really bad game with it. I do not understand why someone would want content to be removed if there is still equal amount of new content being added to the game.