More Horizontal Progression please

[Zumi]

No thanks fighting and camping the same bosses in FFXI for over 10 years wasn't fun. I like how they have new bosses to fight in FFXIV.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Yes in guild wars 2 it worked with only changing secondary attributes while the main ones remain the same.

But each gears had different theme according to the dungeon them it was from, fire from volcano dungeon, ice from ice dungeon etc, different models also.

And the "horizontal progression" turned into only using the slaying spec or w/e it was called to get through content as fast as possible. I remember the party shouts of all warriors and a guardian, or elementalist or w/e to get through dungeons as fast as possible to maximize efficiency when grinding for gold.

[Arabian_Wolf]

And the "horizontal progression" turned into only using the slaying spec or w/e it was called to get through content as fast as possible. I remember the party shouts of all warriors and a guardian, or elementalist or w/e to get through dungeons as fast as possible to maximize efficiency when grinding for gold.

I remember those days, one of the reasons why I quit the game, doing same dungeon over and over again sure isn't what it means to "have fun" in my dictionary.

[Gilthas]

Horizontal gear progression isn't some perfect system. It brings along its own set of problems, that in my opinion, are much worse than the problems with vertical gear progression.

Lets not forget how in FFXI:
- Real item upgrades were very rarely added to the game. It wasn't uncommon that new patches added nothing for your job.
- To keep players from getting their gear and being done with the game, FFXI had a mix of bad drop rates and lockouts that ensured that you rarely were able to get gear.
- Since we didn't get any real upgrades and items were so rare, we had to rerun the same stuff for years.

[midnitdragoon]

They should do what they did in final fantasy 11. The focus should be on story, missions, and forming parties to reach a goal. The reward may be the opportunity to explore a new land, viewing a cool cutscene that had meaning or impact on the trial you went through! That new weapon/armor or item should be the last thing to expect from a reward.

Although at this point I dunno if that would work. Most ppl would be shocked if all of sudden you don't get anything out of completing every single quest or mission.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

They should do what they did in final fantasy 11. The focus should be on story, missions, and forming parties to reach a goal. The reward may be the opportunity to explore a new land, viewing a cool cutscene that had meaning or impact on the trial you went through! That new weapon/armor or item should be the last thing to expect from a reward.

Although at this point I dunno if that would work. Most ppl would be shocked if all of sudden you don't get anything out of completing every single quest or mission.

People are still surprised when the new story dungeon doesn't drop loot.

[Gilthas]

They should do what they did in final fantasy 11. The focus should be on story, missions, and forming parties to reach a goal. The reward may be the opportunity to explore a new land, viewing a cool cutscene that had meaning or impact on the trial you went through! That new weapon/armor or item should be the last thing to expect from a reward.

Yet most people only completed CoP after the rings were added to the game.

Hell, many people only completed RotZ after the earrings were added!

Too many people can't take off their rose-tinted glasses when they look back at FFXI. Good luck getting any quest that required a group done in FFXI if it didn't have a reward.

[Fendred]

I used to say the same thing, and I still agree with you in principle, OP. After having looked over other expansions to games that were well received, I think the real issue is that MMORPG designers are approaching their expansions with the wrong philosophy. An expansion should never "build over" what is currently there. An expansion should be a soft reworking of the whole game so that the old and new material work as a seamless whole. FFXI's model isn't perfect, as others have pointed out, yet FFXI's model is much better at maintaining a symbiotic relationship between expansion material than WoW's model. WoW broke its old content beyond repair, yet FFXI's content has remained far less damaged by time. While Path of Exile is a slightly different genre, it's recent expansion, PoE:Awakening, follows a design philosophy that is far more benign than the philosophy used to produce Heavensward. I think they could learn a thing or two from how GGG chose to do their expansion.

[midnitdragoon]

Yet most people only completed CoP after the rings were added to the game.

Hell, many people only completed RotZ after the earrings were added!

Too many people can't take off their rose-tinted glasses when they look back at FFXI. Good luck getting any quest that required a group done in FFXI if it didn't have a reward.

Not everything has to do with nostalgia, the idea might actually work if it was properly executed.

[Evtrai]

And the "horizontal progression" turned into only using the slaying spec or w/e it was called to get through content as fast as possible. I remember the party shouts of all warriors and a guardian, or elementalist or w/e to get through dungeons as fast as possible to maximize efficiency when grinding for gold.

I remember those days, one of the reasons why I quit the game, doing same dungeon over and over again sure isn't what it means to "have fun" in my dictionary.

Isn't that what heavensward is currently about and what we are destined to do for about 5-6 months? Or you mean to say you don't run Fractal/Neverreap to get tomes?