More Horizontal Progression please

[Pyretta_Blaze]

Even if it was mostly vertical progression but items are acquired in different content. What happened to accessories coming from Primal EX? We need more content, more options even if we had basically the same equipment.

[Alipoprocks]

Even if it was mostly vertical progression but items are acquired in different content. What happened to accessories coming from Primal EX? We need more content, more options even if we had basically the same equipment.

The patch that brought Titan/Garuda/Ifrit Ex was my favorite patch! I lived in PF and met a bunch of people. IDK why they haven't done that again. Was so much fun.

[Destomius]

Horizontal progression is just an illusion of having choices.

[midnitdragoon]

There's the issue right there. This game is lacking in credible content now.

With FFXI ( only one I can compare ) the story that got you to the endgame was epic, you felt like you were working towards something. CoP is / was miles ahead on anything that FF14 has produced. When you got to the end what happened? We had variety.

This...

The cutscenes were truly meaningful and epic for some. Final fantasy xiv for sure has a different approach but I wonder how this will hold up for the years to come..ilvl 1000 gear?

[Gardes]

It baffles me why "it's bad because you might be required to have certain gear" is even still a thing as defense. I had to finish msq to get to endgame. I had to beat titan hard to get into coil. I had to get my ravana weapon and then get my eso weapon to do alex savage and so did everybody else and nobody batted an eyelid. If somebody managed to get into their alex savage group with their i160 dungeon weapon and didn't get promptly kicked after, please inform me.

So you found out that to do A, you need gear from B. So what's the problem with just going to B and getting it? It's not like B is a once a year holiday event from last year that you now have to pay 10 USD as the only way to get said gear? If anything having A around ensures that B is relevant longer and helps ensure that there's always people around wanting to do it. One of your raid members were having trouble farming ravana on their own for their weapon for your group's first entry to A1S and the appointed date for your group's first entry is looming, what are you gonna do? Tell said member you're gonna try to get the others to help him/her get his weapon so everybody can enter? Or just give him/her an ultimatum before telling to piss off when he asks you for help?

[LunaHoshino]

Horizontal progression was one of the main reasons I quit Ragnarok Online. As other people have said, it necessitates having abysmally low drop rates on items to ensure that people don't get their gear too quickly or easily, the end result being that you can grind for a particular piece for months and never see it drop once.

And then once you finally do have it... okay, that's great, then what? You have nothing to aim for because you've already got that piece of BiS gear. It leads to either tremendous stagnation or massive frustration after a while depending on whether you do or don't get the drops you're after.

[Fendred]

Horizontal progression was one of the main reasons I quit Ragnarok Online. As other people have said, it necessitates having abysmally low drop rates on items to ensure that people don't get their gear too quickly or easily, the end result being that you can grind for a particular piece for months and never see it drop once.

And then once you finally do have it... okay, that's great, then what? You have nothing to aim for because you've already got that piece of BiS gear. It leads to either tremendous stagnation or massive frustration after a while depending on whether you do or don't get the drops you're after.

Older raids in vertical progression games had the exact same level of grind for items, and people didn't have anything to do once they had the best equipment in those kinds of games as well. The problem you are referring to has everything to do with Ragnarok Online being a Korean grindhouse MMO and nothing to do with horizontal progression. The pacing in older korean games is not that appealing to a western audience. It's just way too slow.

What is Horizontal Progression? How does it differ from Vertical Progression? Is there such a thing as Diagonal Progression?

Seriously I don't know. This is such an obscure term. It's a game not an elevator.

Lets say they have the next raid in some kind of frigid northlands. As a result, players need to gather sets of gear that provide protection against ice damage to survive the environment and its denizens. That is what horizontal progression is. Instead of raising the item level, the raid set has some kind of situational stat. There are various reasons why this is useful, such as countering power creep in a game, but the primary reason a lot of people are asking for it is that WoW didn't do so hot after it raised its level cap too many times. In addition to lowering the value of older content, It eventually became impossible to reconcile the pace of leveling required by the various zones in the world with how long it took to reach max level. Eventually, players found themselves outleveling zones merely by questing in them long before they ever finished the quests required to see how the story unfolded in each zone. Now they just let people buy their way to max level because its too broken to fix.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Lets say they have the next raid in some kind of frigid northlands. As a result, players need to gather sets of gear that provide protection against ice damage to survive the environment and its denizens. That is what horizontal progression is. Instead of raising the item level, the raid set has some kind of situational stat. There are various reasons why this is useful, such as countering power creep in a game, but the primary reason a lot of people are asking for it is that WoW didn't do so hot after it raised its level cap too many times. In addition to lowering the value of older content, It eventually became impossible to reconcile the pace of leveling required by the various zones in the world with how long it took to reach max level. Eventually, players found themselves outleveling zones merely by questing in them long before they ever finished the quests required to see how the story unfolded in each zone. Now they just let people buy their way to max level because its too broken to fix.

I remember in EQ2 the "Fatal Lifetap" Jewelry dropped. (gives a lifetap proc) and has multiple stats. So its literally good for Mages/Scouts/Tanks and it was good for pretty much everyone. Although it benefited tanks a little more then the others it was still nice. However, there were also procs that warded mages when they casted spells or casted another small nuke.

Horizontal Gear can make it where you need less gear.

Say they revamped Jewelry and made Jewelry like this.

Soul Sucking Necklace
30 Vitality, Strength, Intelligence

Fatal Lifetap:
10% Chance on any hit to deal 584 unaspected damage and heal's caster for 584.
This is good for all melee, all tanks, all mages. Sure, it might be better for tanks overall. However it can still help mages and melee too!


Life Siphoning Earring of Energy
30 Vitality, Wisdom, Intelligence

Engorged
Slowly converts 500 Life into 300 Mana every 4 seconds.
This is good for all mages and casters. Some other classes may benefit more. However all classes can use it!


Bracelet of Stone
30 Vitality, Wisdom, Strength

Stoneskin
Reduces damage taken by 5%. Slows movement speed by 15%.
This is good for all mages and casters and tanks. Some other classes may benefit more. However all classes can use it!

There is no "BEST ITEM" if made well. All items are different and some have weaknesses attached to them. They just change your "Playstyle!"

That is "NOT" Horizontal Progression. You do "NOT" have a choice but to get the new gear. Horizontal Progression is all about choice.

That is actually "Forced" Vertical Progression, because to go to there you need the new ice protection gear. There is no other gear for you then that.

[Nadirah]

That is "NOT" Horizontal Progression. You do "NOT" have a choice but to get the new gear. Horizontal Progression is all about choice.

That is actually "Forced" Vertical Progression, because to go to there you need the new ice protection gear. There is no other gear for you then that.

When you can't switch gear in combat having those miscellaneous items was bullshit anyways because of how the system currently works.

And those lifetap necklaces weren't situational. Either you wore it or you didn't, all the time, every time.

[Laraul]

What is Horizontal Progression? How does it differ from Vertical Progression? Is there such a thing as Diagonal Progression?

Seriously I don't know. This is such an obscure term. It's a game not an elevator.