More Horizontal Progression please

[Sandpark]

You don't have to, but you should be allowed to.

If we're not allowed to then the whole point of the armoury system is moot. The alternative is turn into an alt based game right?

[Sandpark]

The issue you claim that only vertical progression has exists all the same for horizontal progression. Likewise, the solution that you're presenting as to why the problem doesn't apply to horizontal progression (gear scaling with your character) can be applied to games with a vertical progression too.

It can apply to vertical as you say but not in the same way.

In horizontal the one gear scales vertically as you get stronger.

In vertical the whole progressions is get a gear, new gear comes out replace it, rinse and repeat.
If they scaled the vertical gear it wouldn't scale as you get stronger due to above, it has to be replaced. And if they didn't replace the gear then it is no longer vertical but horizontal.

[Sandpark]

That's not the point. Firstly, you shouldn't NEED to have multiple characters just to shuffle your inventory. Second, if we did have horizontal styled progression, then what's going to happen for someone who plays multiple jobs and needs several sets of gear for each because of horizontal progression?

Each job needs certain stats to fill a role and every different job that fills the same role needs the same stat.

Vertical=Items don't scale= Player needs to have couple of sets for one role if has three healer jobs at different levels.
Horizontal=Items scale= Player can have one set of gear for one role even if they have three healer jobs.

Horizontal Example: You get a ring with initial stats usable at lvl 15. The stats increase at 20 and again at 30.
Vertical example: You get a ring with initial stats usable at level 15. Then need to own another at level 20 and another at level 30.

[Ibi]

Horizontal Example: You get a ring with initial stats usable at lvl 15. The stats increase at 20 and again at 30.
Vertical example: You get a ring with initial stats usable at level 15. Then need to own another at level 20 and another at level 30.

That's not horizontal progression, that's just gear scaling. You can have scaling without horizontal progression and visa versa.

Horizontal:

There are two level 50 tank chest pieces. They're all roughly the same in terms of power, but each is situationally superior to the other.

Let's say Chest A has a ton of accuracy. Chest B has a proc that gives you a shield for 1 second every time you're hit.

Now let's make up two bosses. Boss 1 is very evasive and attacks slowly. Boss 2 is not particularly evasive, but every time it attacks it swings twice. Chest A would be much better against Boss 1, but the accuracy would be wasted on Boss 2. Chest B would let you shield half of Boss 2's attacks, but the proc would be useless on Boss 1, who attacks too slowly.

In the next round of content, there would be more bosses added for which A or B might be superior, or perhaps new chests C or D, along with new items that could be superior for Bosses 1 or 2, or perhaps new bosses 3 or 4. A and B likely remain competitive options though, even once you have C or D.

Vertical:

There are two level 50 tank chest pieces. They're all roughly the same in terms of power.

In the next round of content, chests C and D are added. They're of a higher item level than A and B. Neither A nor B is likely to be relevant once you have C or D (barring constraints like accuracy).

[Sandpark]

That's not horizontal progression, that's just gear scaling. You can have scaling without horizontal progression and visa versa

What you are referring to is situational gear. That usually goes hand in hand with horizontal progression.

The gear scaling and horizontal to vertical comparison is applicable.

In vertical you progress in a ladder ,you obtain new gear and abilities to fight stronger enemies and toss or don't use the old stuff.
In horizontal you progress static/scaling, you obtain one gear or ability that strengthens or changes to fight stronger enemies and use what you have for longer intervals.

Emergent gameplay is horizontal.
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-p.../2300-6426981/

[Urthdigger]

I'd really be wary of this due to my experience with FFXI. So many endgame events... and you were REQUIRED to do ALL of them EVERY WEEK because each one had one or two items you were REQUIRED to have, and even once you had them you couldn't just ditch your LS without being a total dick.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I'd really be wary of this due to my experience with FFXI. So many endgame events... and you were REQUIRED to do ALL of them EVERY WEEK because each one had one or two items you were REQUIRED to have, and even once you had them you couldn't just ditch your LS without being a total dick.

Why not mention a good game?

I mean, Yoshi didn't take ideas from FFXI. There are games with both Horizontal and Vertical Progession. WoW has some of that, EQ2 had a lot of it.

[Urthdigger]

Why not mention a good game?

I mean, Yoshi didn't take ideas from FFXI. There are games with both Horizontal and Vertical Progession. WoW has some of that, EQ2 had a lot of it.

I was specifically mentioning it as a cautionary tale, a path I do not wish them to go down. I don't mind some horizontal progression (Like people debating over what combination of CT, coil, and tomestone gear was truly best in slot), but things should be done under the assumption that the playerbase will require players to do all the current endgame available, and drop rates should be high enough that you're not stuck paying a debt to all the months of work people gave so you could have a drop.

[Shinsaki]

So many endgame events...

There's the issue right there. This game is lacking in credible content now.

With FFXI ( only one I can compare ) the story that got you to the endgame was epic, you felt like you were working towards something. CoP is / was miles ahead on anything that FF14 has produced. When you got to the end what happened? We had variety.

[Warlyx]

There's the issue right there. This game is lacking in credible content now.

With FFXI ( only one I can compare ) the story that got you to the endgame was epic, you felt like you were working towards something. CoP is / was miles ahead on anything that FF14 has produced. When you got to the end what happened? We had variety.

i did COP x3 fully , once in my static took weeks and we wiped like mad but the most fun experience i remember in a mmorpg ! , once helping a friend later on, and once again duo NIN + SCH with my gf (we were lvl 90ish so was a cakewalk ) , and if u tell go do it it again....i will! , lvl 75 cap of course , and keeping actual homepoint teleports , traveling was the worst part of COP...

too bad my old HDD broke ...the amount of screenshots i had :_(