Shed some Garlean light?

[Nefariousronin]

I've noticed a few discrepancies in the timeline that I'm looking to clear up. I've scoured, along with the aid of a fellow lore-enthusiast (Sounsyy), through a bunch of lore history looking for when exactly Othard fell.

Now, while doing this, I came across three different supposed dates when the actual empire of Garlemald formed and took over Ilsabard and the accompanying Othard.


First, from the ARR bonus disc:

Second, the Lodestone:
( Making it 1521 )

And thirdly, from the Gubal Library in the book:



Thoughts? Does anyone have any further evidence to these three dates? Was this simply an expansion from Republic, then in 1521 began to grow into an Empire? Conquering Ilsabard and then in 1552 moved to Othard?

Sounsyy's theory on putting everything together: "So when placed like this, it seems to all fit together pretty well. In 1521, the Garlean Republic starts aggressive expansion. By 1522, Garlemald has numerous conquered territories and Galvus is promoted from Legatus to Dictator, which brings about great changes to Garlemald's social structure, including the use of titles and the end of a true republic - though it seems that Garlemald continued calling itself a republic until much later. For thirty years the Empire grows and builds until it has conquered all of Ilsabard. In 1552, with an entire continent under its dominion, Garlemald declares itself an Empire reminiscent of the Ancient Allagan Empire. Furthering in this goal, they seek to bring Othard to heel, conquering all of the Eastern nations in a mere 5 years. Then in 1557, Garlemald turns to Aldenard."



1)
Waning of the Sixth Sun Wrote:
To the north, on the continent of Ilsabard, the Republic of Garlemald begins overwhelming nearby nations with their iron war machines, seizing their land and consuming their cultures. In the year 1552, the leader of the republic, Solus zos Galvus, declares Garlemald an empire and appoints himself emperor. The new imperial army, now swelling with the might of countless assimilated nations, methodically subjugates the eastern continent of Othard and the remaining lands of Ilsabard, welcoming those nations willing to bow to imperial rule, while erasing those which refuse the Garlean standard.

2)
Lodestone Wrote:
Until some fifty years ago, Garlemald was a remote and sparsely populated nation which held little more than a fraction of the northern continent of Ilsabard. But with the arrival of a technological golden age and the concurrent emergence of a brilliant young legatus—now the reigning emperor—in the span of a single generation Garlemald established itself as one of the most formidable forces in all of Hydaelyn.

3)
Lodestone Wrote:
One nation after the next fell before their relentless onslaught, first those of the northlands, followed by the sovereign states of the eastern continent, Othard.

4)
Lodestone Wrote:
His actions garnered the undivided support of the citizenry, and catapulted him into the position of Dictator, supreme commander of Garlemald. In the years that followed, Garlean forces conquered all the lands of the north and hammered them into a single entity. Galvus then instituted an imperial regime to govern their new territories, conferring upon himself the title of "Emperor."

5)
Lodestone Wrote:
The eastern nations were the first to feel the newborn empire's mighty fist. It was during this campaign that the emperor witnessed firsthand the destruction wrought by the primals—an experience that led to an imperial mandate for their annihilation.

6)
On Garlean Hierarchy Vol 1 Wrote:
The rise of the Garlean Empire in the Year 1522 of the Sixth Astral Era led to significant changes in the structure of the Garlean society.

(Credit goes to Sounsyy for gathering this all up for me to easily post.)

[Anonymoose]

Nice catches! My notes just say "1522 and allusions to it," so I kinda glazed over the contradictions relatively unnoticed, lol.

The ARR bonus disc has a few typos due to the time crunch and the fact that you can't hotpatch a Bluray, so that'd be my first suspect for the broken piece.

In its time, Rise and Fall made the claim that Garlemald was a remote Republic up until roughly fifty years ago and that cleared the fact check. Short version, Solus, a popular and successful Legatus, helped transform the Republic's military (with the aid of the father of Darnus) using resurrected Allagan machina modified to run sans magick. The popularity from this (and his victories on the battlefield) catapulted him from Legatus to Supreme Commander (aka Dictator). He then conquered Ilsabard and transformed it into the Garlean Empire, which then moved on Othard.

The Gubal Library piece (naming conventions) is something that Koji has been trying to get out for a while, either here in the forums or in the game itself. It's likely that this piece wasn't written hastily and is thus accurate. Here, we see the title ZOS already exists for Emperor. I'd wager that 1522 was the official transformation of The Republic of Garlemald to the Garlean Empire.

Between 1522 and 1557, we know Galvus conquered the remaining Ilsabardian nations, as well as the eastern continent of Othard, but which fell how quickly is a little murky. 1552 may be a typo that mixes the important dates of 1557 and 1522 and not actually be important at all, so I wouldn't take it as a given (yet) that the narrative need fit that date in at all.

A big reason for my hesitation to fit the conquest of Othard to that date is that the Empire faced primal(-like?) entities in Othard and wanted to avoid doing so again so badly that they moved on Mor Dhona (Eorzea's aetherial epicenter) immediately after they had a foothold in the realm, then and refused to move on Eorzea for ten years after the assault failed and primals were summoned by our beast tribes. Either they didn't effortlessly steamroll across Othard in five years, or they lost everything they could afford to lose. To be sure, either way, it took a heavy toll on their resources, but I'm presently inclined to the former assumption because if 1552 was the start of the Othardian campaign and it cost them everything, how did they recoup to move on Ala Mhigo and officially start the Eorzean campaign so quickly?

[Nefariousronin]

Either they didn't effortlessly steamroll across Othard in five years, or it just cost a hell of a lot to do it. I'm inclined to the former, at the moment (though either way it took a heavy toll on their resources).

That's sort of my concern at the moment. A whole five years to conquer a continent while combating Primals. While, we don't really know how large Othard is, in the scale of things, we do know that they didn't entirely wipe out the continent and occupy. They left some villages and remote places untouched, knowing they were of absolutely no threat to their conquest.

"As part of our research leading up the Rise and Fall of the White Raven, we learned that a few cities on far eastern shores held out against the Empire and Garlemald didn’t feel that they were enough of a threat to claim them."


We're given such abstract history and dates for a large part of this world, it would be nice if it was put into concrete perspective. Since this does directly effect Au Ra and backstories of said Au Ra, it'd be beneficial to know exactly when instead of giving a giant year-gap where it maybe happened. Typos or not via the bonus disc.

[jomoru]

While its traditional wisdom to say "never fight a war on multiple fronts" that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Rome had multiple campaigns of conquest active at the same time, since the Garleans are heavily based on the Romans its not unreasonable to assume they were fielding multiple campaigns at the same time. Further keeping with the Roman Model the Legions of Rome were far more independent from eachother than modern military forces, with the most extreme end of that periods where various Legions fought eachother for the imperial throne.


Luvia is extremely famous for her brutal campaigns outside Eorzea, while its possible these were done over 15 years ago she doesn't seem that old? I know it can be hard to read age on characters but we see her sister and she does not look like someone who'd have to be in her 40s.

The Situation in Ala Mihgo was both an act of strategy but also a stroke of luck on the part of the Garleans. It was something that had to be seized at the time even if they were not entirely prepared. Five years pass between this conquest and Silvertear.

Silvertear was such a pyric victory for the Garleans that only now have they been able to replace their battleship 15 years later.

So my theories are as follows: First each of hte legions acts independently of each other, jockeying for position beneath the emperor. I am basing this both on the Roman ideal and the ease with which the 7th legion went rogue. Gaius struck early in Ala Mihgo while other legions were conquering elsewhere. He may even have been using much of his legion elsewhere using only a small portion to claim Ala Mihgo in its extremely weakened state. This explains the five year gap between Ala Mihgo and Silvertear.

The time period given for the first Primal summoned in Eorzea is between the Fall of Ala Mihgo and SIlvertear. if its closer to Silvertear, I will argue this shows once more that the Garleans are acting before they are ready for mass conquest. It was in fact an act of despiration. If Silvertear is a poorly planned act of despiration throwing things at the situation that the Garleans could ill afford to lose this both explains why they need to take more time to prepare for actual attacks on Eorzea and the political fallout of Gaius.

Now as I said earlier there seems to be some political bickering between the various Legions. We know that the pyretic victory at Silvertear is enough of a fuck for Gaius that Nael is able to take over operations more or less. So we can assume this is another massive delay in the efficency of the Garlean military machine. One that is fairly rare.

Between the politics and the setbacks in Eorzea the situation there has become the Garlean equivalent of Vietnam, one the former emperor had little will to support thus why Gaius was practically acting on his own in the ARR storyline.

The Domans from the Ninja quests do not seem to be extremely old. They seem to be functionally early mission types. We know they were there and active enough for the first Fall of Doma based on the Ninja plot.

So in short I believe the Othard campaign was still active and much more effective than the clusterfuck that has been the slow and hampered process of conquest in Eorzea.

[BozoBlanco]

Sorry for the necro bump but I have question. In patch 4.5 Varis said that Ascians are the founders of the Garlean Empire (implying Emet Selch using Solus as a vessel). But if the Empire was founded while Solus was still alive, does that means that Varis was lying to us? Or I'm I missing something else?

This is the quote from the cutscene:

Varis zos Galvus: But I foreswore that privilege the day I learned that the Garlean Empire was built by the hand of an Ascian.
Alisaie: What!?
Varis zos Galvus: Yes. My grandsire, the former emperor, is of their number. And who better to build an empire capable of bringing about the calamitous change we desire?

[Dikatis]

Sorry for the necro bump but I have question. In patch 4.5 Varis said that Ascians are the founders of the Garlean Empire (implying Emet Selch using Solus as a vessel). But if the Empire was founded while Solus was still alive, does that means that Varis was lying to us? Or I'm I missing something else?

This is the quote from the cutscene:

Varis zos Galvus: But I foreswore that privilege the day I learned that the Garlean Empire was built by the hand of an Ascian.
Alisaie: What!?
Varis zos Galvus: Yes. My grandsire, the former emperor, is of their number. And who better to build an empire capable of bringing about the calamitous change we desire?

Holy mother of necro, Batman!

As for your question, the Garlean Republic was a thing for decades or centuries before Solus/Emet-Selch took over. But Solus is the person who introduced magitek and gave it the power and organization to turn it into an empire. And as one of the leaders of the Ascians, Emet-Selch is clearly behind the rise and fall of at least two empires: Allag and Garlemald, but has likely had a hand in others.

[Enkidoh]

Dikatis is totally correct - Garlemald existed as a republic for centuries prior to it becoming the Empire due to early on learning to harness the vast reserves of aether-rich cereleum found in the frozen wastes of the place, initially as a heating source (it burns extremely hot with a bright blue flame, rather like natural gas), as it was the only way they were able to live in such a frigid environment.

Solus came along much later, and whom at some point was possessed by Emet-selch (probably about when 'Solus' was mentioned as first beginning his rise as just a lowly engineer with introducing magitek technologies, starting with the cereleum engine.).

At that point the actual person who was Solus was effectively dead and gone - his will and personality erased by Emet's dominant Unsundered soul, and from that point it was all Emet wearing Solus's face as a meatsuit (and he continued to do so long after 'Solus''s mortal body expired - using Allagan cloning technology to make himself essentially a wardrobe of "Young Solus meatsuits" (which became something of his iconic look, ironically).

And Emet certainly had a hand in the formation of other empires throughout history including Allag - he outright and very gleefuly boasted of that fact when he first introduced himself to the Warrior of Light and the Scions in the Crystarium during Shadowbringers (which at the time he was in the process of creating yet another pseudo-empire on the First in the form of Eulmore - he was the one responsible for showing Eulmore how to control the sineaters by having Eulmore's governor infuse his then unborn son with sineater essence, turning him into a Lightwarden, as part of his plan to rejoin the First) - his empire building naturally coming to an abrupt end though under the ocean when you punch an axe sized hole through his chest though.

[Cleretic]

including Allag - he outright and very gleefuly boasted of that fact when he first introduced himself to the Warrior of Light and the Scions in the Crystarium during Shadowbringers

What's interesting here is that every noteworthy figure in Allag is accounted for, usually thanks to cloning, meaning none of them can be Emet puppeting someone else; he's not Emperor Xande (either time), he's not Amon, he's not Noah, he's not Unei or Doga, he's not even Phlegethon or Artorius.

God knows I don't want another Emet story enough to find out (and I'm basically at my limit for 'stories about Allag leadership' too), but I do find that part notable: we only really have Emet's word for him influencing Allag, we don't actually have any evidence of how.

[BozoBlanco]

That all makes a lot of sense to me now. Thank you you three for your insight.

[SannaR]

What's interesting here is that every noteworthy figure in Allag is accounted for, usually thanks to cloning, meaning none of them can be Emet puppeting someone else; he's not Emperor Xande (either time), he's not Amon, he's not Noah, he's not Unei or Doga, he's not even Phlegethon or Artorius.

God knows I don't want another Emet story enough to find out (and I'm basically at my limit for 'stories about Allag leadership' too), but I do find that part notable: we only really have Emet's word for him influencing Allag, we don't actually have any evidence of how.

And then there's the Echo memory we get from Fandaniel. Where either he just got raised up to his seat when Emet is telling him to send a clone to Syrcus or that scene is part of a longer talk. Either way even if Emet wasn't a known influencer he seemed to have the right people's ears. Sometimes that's all a person needs to influence other things. He did say he knew how the tower worked. Now we don't what all knowledge was public accessible and what wasn't.