CT is dead, please fix

[Alahra]

I'd like to see at least the ability to run these unsynched. I'd like to 130 several pieces of Poetics gear and weapons for glamour purposes, but most of my current playgroup never did FCOB. If we could run these unsynched it would at least make running the weekly a possible thing again. (Though CT would probably need to be retooled, as the Atomos fight wouldn't be passable without a minimum of 15 people (4 for each pad and 1 person to solo each maw).

[adn]

I do agree that old content should not be relevant forever, but people should still be able to DO it. In WoW you can still go back through old raid instances and blitz through them if you want. Not so for CT because you have to get 24 people queued up for it which is a real pain especially in the case of LoTA, and it will only get worse over time because fewer and fewer people will run it, which is a real shame because CT is a gorgeous and pretty fun raid with a decently interesting storyline that ties into the main story.

On the other hand I don't want them wasting development time on making old raids accessible. It should be a cut and dry fix like allow undersizing, remove all monetary rewards to prevent RMT from spamming it, and have undersize version apply like a 50% stats buff or something.

[Malevicton]

So you want to incentivize it, but not with an incentive worth running? Then what's the point?

Looking at other roulettes, there's a pattern.
Low level: contains dungeons required to progress
High level: contains dungeons required to progress
MSQ: contains dungeons required to progress
trials: contains trials required to progress
guidlhests: contains guildhests required to progress

Is there any other compromise you can throw out besides roulette? I can get people seeing it being fun for them (though majority...? arguable, let's just leave that), but it's not really what roulettes were for.

And is this about irrelevant content in general, or a few people on a crusade about CT? There's plenty of irrelevant content now. All the coils, all ex primals. Those get done plenty for glamour/story/pony, and allowing unsynched really breathed some life into them. Why is unsynched not enough? That's really the uncompromising part. You don't seem to have any reason why not, except that it's not what you'd prefer. It would solve the problem easily. CT has glamours/minions/story to incentivize it already, which is as much as any of the other old content (which people often run unsyched) has.

[Nadirah]

And is this about irrelevant content in general, or a few people on a crusade about CT? There's plenty of irrelevant content now. All the coils, all ex primals. Those get done plenty for glamour/story/pony, and allowing unsynched really breathed some life into them. Why is unsynched not enough? That's really the uncompromising part. You don't seem to have any reason why not, except that it's not what you'd prefer. It would solve the problem easily. CT has glamours/minions/story to incentivize it already, which is as much as any of the other old content (which people often run unsyched) has.

As a side note, I managed to get all of Coil unlocked and have run everything up to T9 *because* of the unsync'ed option. Farming T5 for that gun drop tho.. T.T

[Adire]

snip

Never did I say I wanted to incentivize it with things not worthwhile, everywhere have I said that I want it to be worthwhile. If you're referring to potential experience from it not making dungeons obsolete, that's a moot point, because an alternative to dungeon grinding =/= an un-worthwhile incentive.

Roulettes are but one incentive. Relics are another. New triad cards and such could be yet another example. All of these would serve to reward people who have completed it, and repopulate CT.

The reason CT is brought up more is because it's something more in line with what the average player would do, while coil and ex primals are designed for the more hardcore player. And yes, unsynced has breathed some life into them, made them more accessible. You're forgetting however that this content is designed for an 8man group, not a 24man group.

Not to mention, players who want the intended experience of what they're doing may not have the skill to do coil or ex primals, but may have the skill to do CT. For these players, a synced CT would give them that and be possible, but a synced coil/ex primal would not. And thus, that leaves the only way to get the proper 24man raid with some semblance to its intended difficulty as being incentives to repopulate it rather than make it unsynced.

And while I'm not in opposition of unsynced being an option as well, incentives would be a much better way to do things in addition to unsynced. Adherence to a formula that works well is not a bad thing.

That's your problem if you can't comprehend a simple paragraph I just posted.

Let's analyze your post and try to make it simple for you, shall we?

Better than CT that's for sure. CT was only made for people who were too bad for coil.

What did I respond to this with?

I said, I have done hardcore content in previous games. I don't doubt that I could do coil. I choose not to do coil because I am no longer interested in hardcore raiding. I am proof that CT was not "made for people who were too bad for coil."

Why am I proof of this? Because I do CT, but I highly doubt I would be too bad for coil. I also said some people simply did not have time to commit to a static and hardcore raid. CT was also designed for these people.

And CT was designed for anyone who would like to do it. Your "point" that CT is exclusively designed for coil rejects is nonsensical, or a troll post. It seems you're the one in need of better reading comprehension.

[Malevicton]

snip

So, do you think a unsyched option would or wouldn't solve it? Like it or not, that's the way easier option. It's not as simple as "well just throw in a new roulette." That takes lobby servers. It takes balancing the rewards. It's kind of a thing. Unsyched doesn't really take anything. I wouldn't be opposed to a triad card, or a mount. I would be opposed to relic progression. And while I'm not necessarily against the abstract of a roulette, it just seems needlessly complicated; and if properly executed, still overkill if unsynch would do the job. Not to mention that that's just not historically how roulettes have been used.

Even with a roulette, getting the 2.0 experience of CT can't happen. Because it's not 2.0 anymore. That experience requires players being on the same page, and they wouldn't be, not even remotely.

I'm fine with people being able to do CT again, but it doesn't need to be competitively relevant with 3.0 content.

[Adire]

snip

Alone? It would not solve it, no. I highly doubt PF would be regularly full of people doing CT. It would only make overgeared, overleveled people be able to grind it with fewer people and less mistakes. But it won't do anything at all for the solo newbie or the small group of friends playing together from the beginning.

And yeah, it won't be the same as 2.0. Far more close to the 2.0 experience to have 24 synced people doing it than 8 unsynced people doing it though.

[seorin]

If the incentive is too great people will feel obligated to run it to the point of tedium. If the incentive is "minor" then people still won't bother doing it enough to revive the queue times.

This is a false dichotomy. There are middle-ground incentives like roulette bonuses. Plenty would choose to run CT if only given a reason.

So, do you think a unsyched option would or wouldn't solve it? Like it or not, that's the way easier option.

Unsync requires mechanics changes to the dungeons themselves, so roulette is actually the simpler option. Both would be great, and if you added the queuing changes outlined in the OP it would probably fix the problem once and for all. I do think it warrants that degree of attention because nothing else is suffering abandonment to the same degree. That's not because so many people hate CT, it's simply a structural problem stemming from the need for 24 people.

[Krylo]

So, do you think a unsyched option would or wouldn't solve it?

Lack of level synching is why I quit vanilla WoW back in the day. It was easy to find a max level character to run you through deadmines, but it was impossible to find a group of people around the proper level willing to do it right. And then the same thing on shadowfang, etc.

Playing content that was designed for your level with unsynched players doesn't even begin to be fun. It made it seem like there wasn't even a point to playing at all.

Unsynching doesn't even begin to be a solution for helping people experience outdated content.

Not to mention that that's just not historically how roulettes have been used.

Incentivizing people to go into old content so that it stays semi-relevant and allows new players to get in and experience it in a way that makes the experience feel relevant for new players is exactly how roulettes have been used. It's pretty much what every roulette other than Expert is/has been for since roulettes were introduced.

[Escha]

What did I respond to this with?

I said, I have done hardcore content in previous games. I don't doubt that I could do coil. I choose not to do coil because I am no longer interested in hardcore raiding. I am proof that CT was not "made for people who were too bad for coil."

Why am I proof of this? Because I do CT, but I highly doubt I would be too bad for coil. I also said some people simply did not have time to commit to a static and hardcore raid. CT was also designed for these people.

And CT was designed for anyone who would like to do it. Your "point" that CT is exclusively designed for coil rejects is nonsensical, or a troll post. It seems you're the one in need of better reading comprehension.

Good to know you haven't read my previous posts other than the one you replied to