Tanks "Hold the Line"

[Februs]

I've played Frontlines and WD with WAR and PLD. I can see the burst of Warriors for sure, PLD not so much, no experience on DRK.

Drk's Dark Arts burst combo is comparable to WAR's Fell Cleave combo. War's are still king of the hill for dmg, but, at maximum burst (Dark Arts up for both Carve and Spit as well as Soul Eater along with the off CD moves like plunge and low blow) I'm pretty sure Drk actually surpasses WAR in terms of overall burst dmg. I can't remember what the actual numbers work out to though. Downside is they are much squishier at baseline than War and Pld.

[CeveArthu]

Again, even with the better version of duration and cooldown, its still something that is designed as a gimmick for sieze and would be overpowered in wolves den

[Blubbers]

Tanks already bring a lot of unique tankiness to the table. Take paladin for example...

1. VIT party bonus for the entire group
2. Testudo = 25% damage reduction for the group for 20 seconds
3. Tank LB = 50% damage reduction for group for 10 seconds
4. Cover = take all physical damage on one target
5. Flash to aoe blind enemies to reduce incoming damage
6. 4s stun to keep your target locked down while your group kills them or keep someone from wrecking your healer/caster

These are all moves that reduce incoming damage to the group. The only way to survive an onslaught of caster LB's or a strong push from another alliance is to have a tank who properly uses group cooldowns (testudo, tank LB, etc..). Having a tank is already a huge boon to the party.

Tank defensive cooldowns are also extremely useful. As 2 GC's clash, as a Paladin I'm always leading the charge and always get targeted first. You better believe I pop all my defensive cooldowns and they keep me alive while my party offers support.

In wolves den, I'll agree the defensive cooldowns are far less useful as you rarely get targeted and you no longer have your own tank LB, but all of your other moves are extremely good and timing is much more important there.

[Februs]

I'm getting the feeling that you're thinking about the Tank's role in PvP wrong. I don't blame you. When I first attempted PvP, I thought my class was useless. PvE aggro mechanics had trained me to think of tanking in one way and one way only, and without an aggro bar I thought that I was suddenly useless except to stun lock players for a measly 4 seconds. You learn to think differently the more you play.

In seize, Tanks basically run interference for the rest of the team. This can be done a number of different ways, but it boils down to one of two. You're either a big distraction, or you're the bait and lure. The bait and lure tactic is by far the most commonly employed (as the distraction method is usually a last ditch effort to save the team by sacrificing yourself. It sucks for you, but it's better to cost the team 5pts than 10+pts). Direct Defense is almost impossible and is wildly impractical in a PvP setting. The only tank even capable of running effective direct defense is a PLD (with Testudo and cover), and even then the defense is limited to a few team mates and only for a short time with a really long cooldown to work with. It's great for those hardcore charges that need some buffing, but otherwise it's not an effective strategy for the vast majority of the match. If you're still trying to run a tank in PvP by doing direct defense than you should consider rethinking your role, and practicing your dip and dives. You will be infinitely more useful to both the Dps and healers.

[Kaizer]

That is how I played my tank (not healer which I usually) in PvP, the best way to benefit the team. Bait, lure, annoy, etc. That moving thing with the large HP (somewhat) that does just enough dmg to be annoying but not really threatening (unless WAR). I guess what I'm trying to create is a player induced aggro. Something that says, hay, we have to kill this guy right now or we can't achieve so and so goal.

[Februs]

That moving thing with the large HP (somewhat) that does just enough dmg to be annoying but not really threatening (unless WAR). I guess what I'm trying to create is a player induced aggro. Something that says, hay, we have to kill this guy right now or we can't achieve so and so goal.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

I play as both Drk and Pld in frontlines and I definitely do enough dmg to be more than just "annoying." Pld's don't have the same kind of burst as Drks and Wars, but their Royal authority combo has a consistently higher dmg output than most average tank attacks (when not in shield oath), and can only be beaten by dmg boosting skills of War and Drk (like Dark arts), and their stun lock+PvP skills pretty much make them hold the line, anyway. Pld's are the monstrous tip of the spear in PvP. Anything they touch is potentially dead if their Dps are awake, and a lot of people avoid fighting them because their baseline def makes them absurdly difficult to kill.

Drks have an incredible dmg burst, and, assuming I have an even half decent healer on my team that's nearby, I'm usually rocking battle highs/fevers by the end of a good match. So, most of the time, my sheer dmg output as Drk is forcing the enemy to say "hey, we have to kill this guy right now or we can't achieve so and so goal."

I'm not in a match to be annoying, I'm in a match to murder some folks. If you're not getting kills as a tank, or at the very least being instrumental in things dying by stunning and putting enemies in a position to die easy, then you're not doing your job.

[Aphel]

Would like to add that while it may be a measly 4 seconds stun to you, more often than not it can spell the doom of a DPS/healer especially when the fight begins to turn sour.

Those 4 seconds feel like an eternity to us!

But back to the topic. I too feel it's a little too powerful given the fact that a single tank, who already can change the tide of battle when played well, is given a skill that affects a multitude of players so drastically.

[Februs]

Would like to add that while it may be a measly 4 seconds stun to you, more often than not it can spell the doom of a DPS/healer especially when the fight begins to turn sour.

Those 4 seconds feel like an eternity to us!

I am fully aware lol. That measly 4 seconds can be utterly devastating, especially if there's one or two Dps following the tank and pouncing on whatever he stuns (hint hint, to those dps out there who let our tank stuns go to waste. Shame on you. It's practically a free kill.)

What I meant, though, is that, from a tank's perspective, if you're playing as though stunning and trying to defend the healers is your only job in PvP then you seem utterly dull and comparatively insignificant. Most other classes have a stun, for one, so as far as Tanks go that's nothing special (unless you're a Pld and can stun lock for a slightly longer duration), and, between stuns and desperately trying to use your CD's to protect healers (which, again, is really only a Pld thing), you don't really feel like you're doing much compared to your other teammates, and, honestly, you're not lol. If that was all there was to PvP tanking, then tank classes would really not be contributing very much to the team.

Thankfully, this is not all there is to tanking in PvP. It's a much more complicated role than PvE brainwashing makes us all think it will be. Tanks just gotta expand their minds a bit, and rethink how they can be helping the team.

[CeveArthu]

That applies to any class being played well anyway

a good paladin is a massive threat the same way a good drk is a massive threat the same way a good war is a massive threat

just because you dont see good tanks in frontlines (which you generally wont, because its frontlines) doesn't warrant adding a gimmicky move that would be completely broken in competitive format

[Rhaja]

I actually love playing a tank I Seal Rock because we can hold a node pretty damn well. a Warrior and I (DRK) held a node against six dps by popping every CD we had and LBing long enough for the match to end. Eventually they would have taken it, but even at that point it was at about 20, maybe 30 percent. Felt great. Or just holding it long enough fro some other DPS to show up and balance the fight.

The only thing I want for tanks is Provoke to taunt an enemy for 2-4 seconds. Not stun/bind or force auto attacks only. Just that they can only use targeted attacks on you for the time. I don't care if they can aoe or run, it would add a ton of control for tanks and add to our already dominating presence.