Fix/balance for Pld, Drk and Mnk.

[RocheKat]

So currently there are some issues where Pld isn't wanted because they do less dps AND take more magic damage than Drk. Everyone seems to also agree that if the fights had more physical damage Drk would likely be the one getting sat.

For this to work several adjustments to some jobs needs to be made... I am also aware of Drk having some other issues but that isn't important right now After the changes I will explain the thought behind these changes.

Pld changes: Rage of Halone threat greatly increased and the duration of strength reduction reduced to 15 seconds.

Drk changes: Delirium int down moved to power slash and duration reduced to 15 seconds.

Mnk changes: Dragon kick int down effect removed. Blunt resistance changed to 5% and add 5% damage to all sources BUT does not stack with other abilities like this. In other words you can have monk 5% or the better 10% slashing from war/nin... you can have monk 5% or you can have 10% piercing...


So what does all this do?

Right now Pld has a threat problem and a dps problem. By increasing threat on Rage of Halone Pld would be batter equipped to use Royal authority. If they want to get the most out of mitigation on physical bosses they will have to limit Royal Authority use because of the str down effect being shorter. At the same time they wont care about that on magic bosses and can just go full dps.

Drk would be going through something similar. More damage on physical bosses because int down doesn't mater and lower damage on magic bosses because they need that int damage on the boss if they want full mitigation.

Monk not having int down prevents groups from just bringing a monk and a pld leaving the drk out. It also solves an issue monk has with group support. Extra support for everyone but not as good as if you had the class with the specific attack bonuses.

One other thing for this to work out no boss should ever have an AoE raid wipe mechanic that requires/nearly requires the str down of a pld or the int down of a drk.

The int/str down duration of 15 seconds would force pld/drk into no more than 1 dps rotation before going back to their main combo to get the debuff back up. It could be lowered more to restrict them to choosing between extra damage or keeping those debuffs up 100% of the time. It also may not have been clear but if done right on physical bosses these changes should leave pld being the best for damage taken and drk best for dps... and the alternate for magical bosses. Unless of course they don't care about those debuffs then both should be on similar ground with the extra threat pld would have on RoH.

[Freyyy]

Again I'm glad that forum posters are not the ones in charge of job balance changes. Stop doing threads like this.

Just imagine an OT DRK using Power Slash combo every 2 rotations to keep the INT debuff up. Even with Grit off, it would most likely put DRK at the same level of threat than SwO OT PLD was in 2.X. And don't forget that it would be an incredible nerf because we sacrifice the Syphon Strike's MP regen + superior full combo potency of Delirium just to apply Power Slash ? That's nuts my friend. Let the dev's take their own decisions for job balance, wait and see.

Edit : And you want to increase the threat generated by Rage of Halone so that PLDs can use Royal Authority more, but you reduce its duration so that they HAVE to do Rage of Halone every 2 rotations instead of 3 if they want to keep the STR down debuff, thus making them not use Royal Authority at all ? That's nuts too.

Your MNK change stinks too, considering that a WAR will want to keep Maim up, he will do his SE combo because SP has a really low potency, thus either cancelling Dragon Kick or making SE combo have the same problem Delirium already has now with Dragon Kick. Your changes would cause more issues than it would fix. MNK is already in a freaking good place right now since the recent buff, just let people notice it.

[RocheKat]

Again I'm glad that forum posters are not the ones in charge of job balance changes. Stop doing threads like this.Just imagine an OT DRK using Power Slash combo every 2 rotations to keep the INT debuff up. Even with Grit off, it would most likely put DRK at the same level of threat than SwO OT PLD was in 2.X. And don't forget that it would be an incredible nerf because we sacrifice the Syphon Strike's MP regen + superior full combo potency of Delirium just to apply Power Slash ? That's nuts my friend. Let the dev's take their own decisions for job balance, wait and see.

Edit : And you want to increase the threat generated by Rage of Halone so that PLDs can use Royal Authority more, but you reduce its duration so that they HAVE to do Rage of Halone every 2 rotations instead of 3 if they want to keep the STR down debuff, thus making them not use Royal Authority at all ? That's nuts too.

Your MNK change stinks too, considering that a WAR will want to keep Maim up, he will do his SE combo because SP has a really low potency, thus either cancelling Dragon Kick or making SE combo have the same problem Delirium already has now with Dragon Kick. Your changes would cause more issues than it would fix. MNK is already in a freaking good place right now since the recent buff, just let people notice it.

That was the point... Drks damage advantage would be lost vs magic targets and Plds dps advantage would be lost on physical bosses. As it is now Drk dominates Pld because the content is magic heavy and if the next tier is physical heavy it is going to shift to Pld getting the tank spot.

Monks 3% damage buff doesn't really do much because that was never the problem with monk. Monk doesn't bring anything but self dps and a boost to healing. Healers don't need the extra healing most of the time. Drg and Nin do similar dmg while also boosting the damage of other people in the raid. Drk being the go to tank over pld removes the only reason left to bring a monk... int down.

This would basically never be in effect with a WAR/NIN/DRG in your party. as Dancing Edge/Storms Eye/Disembowel are up 100% of the time.

You always have a War/nin, bard, and drg in your group as a monk?

[Freyyy]

That was the point... Drks damage advantage would be lost vs magic targets and Plds dps advantage would be lost on physical bosses. As it is now Drk dominates Pld because the content is magic heavy and if the next tier is physical heavy it is going to shift to Pld getting the tank spot.

That was not my entire point. I was also speaking about the loss of the MP regen from Syphon Strike, which is not only a damage loss but an "everything else" loss. Your ideas are basically nerfing both DRK and PLD which they don't need at all. DRK just needs a fix about their self-conflicting abilities and their lack of raid utility while OTing. PLD just needs... Something. Whether it be on the DPS side or on the raid utility side. The devs will figure all of this out I'm pretty sure.

Monks 3% damage buff doesn't really do much because that was never the problem with monk. Monk doesn't bring anything but self dps and a boost to healing. Healers don't need the extra healing most of the time. Drg and Nin do similar dmg while also boosting the damage of other people in the raid. Drk being the go to tank over pld removes the only reason left to bring a monk... int down.

3% is actually noticeable and it was not the only change, GL lasts longer, and Chakra is stacking much faster (stacking Chakra is what you should do when mechanics prevent you from hitting the boss and it's a really powerful tool when used properly). Pretty sure that MNKs are once again the top DPS in most fights when played properly. That's enough of a reason to bring one. Melee DPS right now are very well balanced.

But again, the most important of my point was : Stop creating threads like this. Everyday a new thread like this spawns, each people with different ideas and often not really brilliant.

[Rhaja]

Honestly, as someone who plays MNK and DRK, I'm getting to the point where I hope SE changes Dragon Kick and leaves Delirium as it is. What they could change it to without breaking class balance I'm not sure. Just blunt is meh, and adding any flat damage increase from all party sources would trample all over Ninja's terrain (trick attack right?). So while I would want to see something changed, you really can't do much either way.

So all we can really do is wait and see what SE feels like doing in 3.1. With how well DRK is doing in Savage I'm a tad worried that the issues people have been bringing up with DRK toolkit will be glossed over because it did so well in the top content, but if it is nothing to it but to get used to it.

Just a random thought, but it would be cool if Dragon Kick added some healing benefit for the party. Restore a small percentage of HP for hitting a target with Dragon Kick, but that'd get insanely OP XD. Warriors with double the blood bath!

[RocheKat]

Honestly, as someone who plays MNK and DRK, I'm getting to the point where I hope SE changes Dragon Kick and leaves Delirium as it is. What they could change it to without breaking class balance I'm not sure. Just blunt is meh, and adding any flat damage increase from all party sources would trample all over Ninja's terrain (trick attack right?). So while I would want to see something changed, you really can't do much either way.

So all we can really do is wait and see what SE feels like doing in 3.1. With how well DRK is doing in Savage I'm a tad worried that the issues people have been bringing up with DRK toolkit will be glossed over because it did so well in the top content, but if it is nothing to it but to get used to it.

Just a random thought, but it would be cool if Dragon Kick added some healing benefit for the party. Restore a small percentage of HP for hitting a target with Dragon Kick, but that'd get insanely OP XD. Warriors with double the blood bath!

That would be really cool for monks and fit the class. Not sure how the heck that we be balanced but I still like it.

[Shyngo]

Mnk changes: Dragon kick int down effect removed. Blunt resistance changed to 5% and add 5% damage to all sources BUT does not stack with other abilities like this. In other words you can have monk 5% or the better 10% slashing from war/nin... you can have monk 5% or you can have 10% piercing...

This would basically never be in effect with a WAR/NIN/DRG in your party. as Dancing Edge/Storms Eye/Disembowel are up 100% of the time.

[ExiaQuanta]

Lol so that MNK 5% dps increase to all dps is the only thing you can keep up? Well i would rather not have it than. Why? Why have 5% when you can have 10. Disembowl, Storms Eye/Dancing Edge, Foes Requim all give 10% debuff to the effected class. And you can keep them on altogether rather than your version of MNKs dragon kick, cause since you said "either this or that" which im under the impression that it will overwrite every debuff the other dps/tnk has put on. In a raid comp it can potentially look like this

Tank1 +5%
Tank2 +5%
Healer (if dps +5%)
Healer (if dps +5%)
DRG +5%
MNK +5%
BRD +5%
Caster +5%

for 40% raid wide dps increase. However if we just kept it as is,

Tank1 10% from any slashing debuff
Tank2 10% from any slashing debuff
Healer1 (if dpsing +10% from foes)
Healer2 (if dpsing +10% from foes)
DRG 10% from disembowl
MNK 10% from current Dragon Kick
BRD 10% from disembowl
Casters 10% from Foes

Total 80% dmg increase for allowing the mob to have 3 debuffs rather than just a 5% for all. Now if you said that +5% stacks with other debuff, than will help yes. But will just cause another Exclusion problem, most likely ninja. Because Trick attack can only be used every minute but dragon kick gets refresh every other mnk rotation.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Monks are now the most powerful class in the game.