What if Tank classes could only meatshield?

[Freyyy]

Just like they didn't count on healers using cleric stance to DPS in coil.

They didn't count on it in the first place for coil. But for Alexander Savage, Yoshi himself said that they were now designing hard end-game encounters in a fashion that pushes everyone counting tanks and healers to do maximum DPS while maintaining their roles in an optimal way. That is the actual direction they want to take.
And given the fact that we're now getting abilities exclusive to our DPS stances/no tank stance for DRK (Fell Cleave, Decimate, Blood Weapon), and that healers are getting a lot of new DPS spells (Aero III, Stone III, Assize, Broil), I don't think it will change. This is how they want FFXIV to work.

[Mutemutt]

They didn't count on it in the first place for coil. But for Alexander Savage, Yoshi himself said that they were now designing hard end-game encounters in a fashion that pushes everyone counting tanks and healers to do maximum DPS while maintaining their roles in an optimal way. That is the actual direction they want to take.
And given the fact that we're now getting abilities exclusive to our DPS stances/no tank stance for DRK (Fell Cleave, Decimate, Blood Weapon), and that healers are getting a lot of new DPS spells (Aero III, Stone III, Assize, Broil), I don't think it will change. This is how they want FFXIV to work.

Actually, it's my understanding that they still don't include healer dps in the end game encounters, even though they are aware of it; just using the 4 dps and the 2 tanks. And I have a sneaking suspicion that the tank dps is tank stance numbers, or at least tank stance numbers when they expect the tank to be tanking.

[Freyyy]

Actually, it's my understanding that they still don't include healer dps in the end game encounters, even though they are aware of it; just using the 4 dps and the 2 tanks. And I have a sneaking suspicion that the tank dps is tank stance numbers, or at least tank stance numbers when they expect the tank to be tanking.

Considering that beating the encounters before overgearing it (most people are already overgeared for AS1 and AS2) requires healer DPS and tanks switching to DPS stance while tanking, I don't think so. I remember Yoshi speaking in a live letter some time before HW's launch about healer DPS and the fact that he saw what the players can do with it and said they will now design encounters to take that factor into account.

Okay, well if Yoshida intends for Savage to push everyone to do more dps while optimally performing their role, then fine.

But then give tanks the appropriate gear to do so.
Right now tanks are the ONLY class that has to make a conscious choice BEFORE the fight starts as to whether they want to do more dps, or provide a buffer of safety for those tight all around healing checks.
Subsequently tanks are the only class that at this point effectively has to spend Alex Normal tokens, Eso, or mountains of Gil on melding, in order to have an extra set of right side STR gear.

I fully agree with this. It's ridiculous that we have to do extra efforts to have optimal jewelry compared to the other jobs.

[Mutemutt]

Considering that beating the encounters before overgearing it (most people are already overgeared for AS1 and AS2) requires healer DPS and tanks switching to DPS stance while tanking, I don't think so. I remember Yoshi speaking in a live letter some time before HW's launch about healer DPS and the fact that he saw what the players can do with it and said they will now design encounters to take that factor into account.

I think you may be looking at beating it while being undergeared. But here's what I'm looking at: a translation of a Game Watch interview

Yoshida: Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development. So if you look at the fight and figure out that if it's not numerically possible to clear with four DPS and tanks, you'll need to make up the gap with DPS from healers. Then when those publish clear videos and other people see the healers DPSing, they might think that healers need to be DPSing even though its a situation that only arose because their clear would have otherwise been impossible. While we could take this into account, and assume a different item level in the next update which would then make it impossible to clear even with the healer DPS, we'd eliminate this type of play for highly skilled players who use communication, items, and a high level of understanding to come up with those last second clears. That would be a tough decision to make, so I still think it should be up to each party's own plans.

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

Going off of that, I get the impression that they work out the required dps (with the 2 tanks and 4 dps) working under the intended conditions as far as the fight mechanics go. Which is why, I think they are assuming the tank will be in tank stance while tanking; it's the intended use, I'm pretty sure.