Parsers and Problems

[Ashkendor]

What is this strange perception that a parser is 'necessary'? Just play the game and learn your rotation. Saying a parser is necessary is like saying Guitar Hero is necessary to learn guitar. Simply LEARN the rotation. Use your EYES. Play the game. A lot. You will learn and build upon your rotation, and a parser wont help you do that, its something that is intuitive, and comes to you as you play your job more.

I don't think anyone's come out and said that a parser is necessary. Plenty of people have said that it's a useful tool, though. People that use parsers are generally the type of people that like having more information about things. Our character stats grow and change, and it's much easier to make adjustments to your rotation (and know if those adjustments are beneficial) if you can parse the damage you're doing. It can help you with equipment as well, as far as choosing which secondary stats are most beneficial. Do you think the optimal rotation was just suddenly a thing that everyone knew how to do? People most likely sat there for hours with parsers going over different rotations and seeing which was the best for them.

[AureliusC]

i think its amazing howmany people only look for the bad in this. DCUO had one in its game. it was essentially like what pvp has, it shows total dmg in and out for every person, healing in and out, etc

yes people got kicked for being too low, and i saw it happen but 8/10 times the group tried to remedy the problem before they kicked said person.
i truly see no reason not to have something in the game that useful. to me its like not showing health bars because "someone will be kicked for being hit too much" or something that nonsensical.

eliteists will kick people yes. but 70% of them already have parsers, and already kick underperforming people because none else can refute what they say because only they can see the supposed parse.

if youre underperforming, then find someone that knows what theyre doingand see if they will help you figure out a better rotation. or use this magical thing that youre using right now to look your class up and see if theres a better way

[melisande]

[QUOTE=Ashkendor; I don't think anyone's come out and said that a parser is necessary. Plenty of people have said that it's a useful tool, though. People that use parsers are generally the type of people that like having more information about things. Our character stats grow and change, and it's much easier to make adjustments to your rotation (and know if those adjustments are beneficial) if you can parse the damage you're doing. It can help you with equipment as well, as far as choosing which secondary stats are most beneficial. Do you think the optimal rotation was just suddenly a thing that everyone knew how to do? People most likely sat there for hours with parsers going over different rotations and seeing which was the best for them. [/QUOTE]

No. You are arguing that " Do you think the optimal rotation was just suddenly a thing that everyone knew how to do? People most likely sat there for hours with parsers going over different rotations and seeing which was the best for them." That is simply not true. I am a BLM since 1.0 launch, i have learned and fine tuned my rotation by simply using my brain and my eyes. Like I said, its something that is actually intuitive and simply comes from playing the game istelf, a lot like an instrument, a very linear one at that (like a piano). You can read tablature or sheet music all day long for reference, but when it comes down to it, it's really your own intuition, and musical inclination.

[Malevicton]

snip

That's... not really how music works. It's very mathematical actually. You can get pretty far by ear, but after a while you really need to learn some basic music theory if you want to keep getting better. You picked a very poor analogy. Or maybe you accidentally picked a really appropriate analogy since most of what was wrong with it translates to why you're wrong about parses. Who knows?

Brain and eyes can get you pretty far. But if you want to really optimize, then that's where parsers come in.

[melisande]

That's... not really how music works. It's very mathematical actually. You can get pretty far by ear, but after a while you really need to learn some basic music theory if you want to keep getting better. You picked a very poor analogy. Or maybe you accidentally picked a really appropriate analogy since most of what was wrong with it translates to why you're wrong about parses. Who knows?

Brain and eyes can get you pretty far. But if you want to really optimize, then that's where parsers come in.

Maybe you should listen to some Beethoven who came up with some of the most mathematically complex music to this date, and he was deaf. Nice try though?

[melisande]

No, it shows that it is intuitive. You can think of your rotation as a piano itself, the rotation can be changed and optimized however you see fit, and as you know is extremely situational. No single rotation is correct. Every song would sound exactly the same if that were the case. Beethoven wrote his own music, he didn't write it from reading other peoples "rotations" or "compositions", or by analyzing his "spectrals" of his music (which at the time they did not have the technology for spectral analysis).

[Malevicton]

No, it shows that it is intuitive. You can think of your rotation as a piano itself, the rotation can be changed and optimized however you see fit, and as you know is extremely situational. No single rotation is correct. Every song would sound exactly the same if that were the case. Beethoven wrote his own music, he didn't write it from reading other peoples "rotations" or "compositions".

Not really "however you see fit" though. You need to adapt to mechanics, but not every reaction is equal. There actually are single correct rotations for certain situations, especially as it approaches a dummy fight.

All in all, it doesn't matter. A parser would just be an affirmation of your intuition. Just because you play a piano part without sheet music doesn't mean you couldn't put it into sheet music (in fact that would never be true). Every intuitive piece of music can be articulated on sheet music, and every rotation can be parsed.

Can we please ditch the music analogy from here? I really don't feel like you have a solid understanding of how music works.

[Malevicton]

Maybe you should listen to some Beethoven who came up with some of the most mathematically complex music to this date, and he was deaf. Nice try though?

near-deaf. It got worse as he aged but he could generally hear himself if he listened closely (especially for his earlier works), which is why he was always awkwardly bent over the instrument. and wouldn't that just show that music theory is just as (if not more) important than going by ear? Because your analogy was going the opposite way...


From http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....rote-music-2/:
"All of Beethoven’s achievements above were done—as far as we can tell—with quite good hearing. This soon changed. Starting around 1796, we have references of Beethoven mentioning in letters hearing “buzzing noises,” but it wouldn’t be until 1801 when we have documented evidence that he had been gradually going deaf."

[sirDarts]

No. You are arguing that " Do you think the optimal rotation was just suddenly a thing that everyone knew how to do? People most likely sat there for hours with parsers going over different rotations and seeing which was the best for them." That is simply not true. I am a BLM since 1.0 launch, i have learned and fine tuned my rotation by simply using my brain and my eyes. Like I said, its something that is actually intuitive and simply comes from playing the game istelf, a lot like an instrument, a very linear one at that (like a piano). You can read tablature or sheet music all day long for reference, but when it comes down to it, it's really your own intuition, and musical inclination.

I have met SO MANY people who do(or most likely do) think they are following a perfect rotation, that they are pushing the best numbers they possibly can. But they are not. You know what the main problem with that is? THEY HAVE NO WAY TO KNOW! They are doing something, they think it's the best they can do, and they have no way to see that it is NOT!
They might follow a "perfect rotation" suggested on a 3rd party site, but if they can't perfect follow it, they should change it, but they don't see the issue. For example take DRG, depending on your Skill Speed there are 2 different rotations that yield optimal results, and this is even more influenced by your actual skill! How are you supposed to know you should change the rotation to suit YOU, if you can't see any numbers?!