Parsers and Problems

[Ryel]

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

The issue here is that bad is relative, especially when youre using arbitrary numbers to make that determination.

I can honestly say i wouldn't straight kick a player for bad DPS in 90% of content, i would however attempt to point out that they were under performing if it was to the detriment of the 7 other players in the run trying to clear content and try to offer suggestions to improve.

If after suggestions for improvement are made and the player in question either refuses to improve or is simply unable (once again to the detriment of the 7 other players attempting to clear content) then at that point i would probably try to find a replacement, no different than anyone can do now with an under geared tank who keeps dying or a healer who is unable to keep up with the healing requirements of an encounter.

So why is it acceptable to do so in the case of a tank or a healer but not in concern to a DPS?

[Lux_Rayna]

So why is it acceptable to do so in the case of a tank or a healer but not in concern to a DPS?

If I had to guess, its because a tank/healer knows theyll have responsibility going in and accepted that as part of the job. A DPS does not really have responsibility at the outset, so trying to introduce some will naturally create resistance.

Personally I take no issue with singling out DPS. I dont think itll be done intelligently though, given our track record.

[Ryel]

A DPS does not really have responsibility at the outset, so trying to introduce some will naturally create resistance.

If it's generally agreed that the responsibility of a tank is to hold enmity and output damage while mitigating incoming damage (pop CDs) and the responsibility of a healer is to shield / keep the party alive. Would you not consider it the responsibility of a DPS to contribute enough damage to be able to progress / clear the fight, in addition to killing adds / handling whatever mechanics are required?

As far as content design is concerned any fight with a DPS check (hard enrage / wipe mechanic) is saying that DPS do hold a share of the responsibility in clearing a fight, so why are we unable to hold them accountable to the standards that the developers themselves are putting forward?

These aren't player requirements being put forward, but the very nature of the fights that are asking for a certain level of performance.

Personally I take no issue with singling out DPS. I dont think itll be done intelligently though, given our track record.

If fights are going to continue to be based around DPS checks then how can this be intelligently handled in the future? Any suggestions?

[Hayward]

Clipped

My arguments would be irrational if you guys didn't have a mile-long reputation in other games (XI, in particular) for pulling this crap. Like I've said in other threads, personal parsers are fine since they serve your claimed purpose far more readily than group parsers and does not have the potential for abuse or drama, both of which appear to be the MO of many so-called "pro" endgamers calling for group parsers.

[Sapphic]

It's a game and whether we like it or not everyone isn't going to perform to an optimum level to satisfy some. That should be no reason for them not to be able to queue for DF and play and have to be at the mercy of others as to whether or not they are vote kicked or trash talked.

If you think players arent already being kicked for low performance without official parsers then you are deluding yourself. Main difference having parser support will show those who get kicked, why they got kicked. Most of the time it is pretty obvious, just watch a casters rotation, melee watch their buffs and debuffs. aka, MNK not using fists of fire even when told numerous times. DRG not using heavy thrust, dots etc.

eg without parser:
Myself and another Monk in DF. I'm averaging 1200 DPS. The other MNK is averaging 350, tank is averaging 500 dps. But due to my DPS and tanks things die fast so the other MNK thinks hes fine. Also is not receptive to any tips due to them thinking they are doing good.

With official parser support that MNK will see that they are MASSIVELY behind me and even behind the tank DPS wise. Any sane, rational person will realise they are doing something wrong, and hopefully start to look at their gameplay. I would happily give tips in that scenario because there would be proof that they need advice.

Also no-one cares outside of savage if players are not optimal. If they are playing at least at a level to clear the content and not be carried by everyone else (aka a massive disparity like I highlighted prior). Then it will be ignored. The problems are when content is NOT being cleared.

Withholding an important tool. yes, it is important due to the enrage DPS checks in end game. Because a small number MAY abuse it is selfish towards the majority. Also, if they added official parser support it won't suddenly stop players being able to report abusive players just like now. So, if someone is abusive, use the system and report them.

[Verius_Nox]

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

The issue here is that bad is relative, especially when youre using arbitrary numbers to make that determination.

I could get behind the people against parsers crowd if they were honest about why they don't want it.

Accept the fact that some of us actually do want tools for the community so they can perform better at their chosen role. The more people who can play decently well, the more pick up group runs that go smoother with less bickering and more relaxed atmospheres.

As for the notion that a parser doesn't make a bad dps good, the majority of the people whom I have known over the years have only gotten better at being a DPS when I introduce them to a way to measure themselves.

[Sapphic]

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

Doesn't make it true though.

[Kemas]

I hate parsers and don't want them. FF14 was voted as most accessible mmo for people with disabilities in 2013 because 14 is for everyone to enjoy, not just the few leets that want everyone to be as "good" as them. If people just embraced tolerance for us lowly casuals or others playing with different circumstances we could all get along. As long as 3rd party software remains against terms of service, i'll report anyone using a parser near me.

Really hope you stick to fates for levelling instead of imposing your "any dps is good dps" mentality in a game where dps is arguably the main mechanic. And God help the rest of us.

[Coatl]

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

The issue here is that bad is relative, especially when youre using arbitrary numbers to make that determination.

People already kick and single out bad DPS for being bad. Lest you forget, PC players already have parsers available to them through 3rd party means. Some people are jerks, and they will be use whatever tools in their possession to make people feel bad. No arguments there.

But please consider that console players have no access to parsers and therefore have no way of telling whether they are doing bad or good. Although it might not be a minority that you personally care about, you cannot deny that it would help DPS that play on console tremendously.

[Ashkendor]

I could get behind the parser crowd if they were honest about why they want it. All this talk about "bettering the community" is nauseating. You want a parser to single out and kick "bad" dps. Just say that and move on. Its not as if a parser will make a bad dps good, so stop acting as if itll help them.

The issue here is that bad is relative, especially when youre using arbitrary numbers to make that determination.

I bet you'd kick a tank that didn't keep his enmity above the "arbitrary number" of "higher than the DPS/heals".

I bet you'd kick a healer that didn't keep the party's HP above the "arbitrary number" of zero.

The numbers aren't arbitrary when you're talking about things like enrage mechanics. The only people I see not wanting parsers are people that would rather no-worries button-mash on DPS than have some actual freakin responsibility to the other people in the party. That's just it though - we already take care of it if the content isn't getting cleared. Enough people already use parsers that horrendous DPS frequently find themselves kicked. The problem stems from the fact that right now they generally have no idea why they were kicked so they do nothing to improve. We can't confront them because we use third party software for parsing. Given a choice between risking a ban and some randie you'll never see again not knowing why he got kicked, it's obvious which one people will take. An ingame parser makes it so there is irrefutable evidence that awful DPS are doing something wrong.