Parsers and Problems

[loreleidiangelo]

I'm really not for a group parser. I'd much rather have a Personnel parser that I can turn on/off that says.

Your DPS: xxxx
Miscellaneous stats: (such as crit %/accuracy/Damage Taken/Healing/%Overheal)
Average DPS of your class in this Trial or Open world: (Probably limited to the past 3 weeks)
Upper Quartile/Highest of DPS of your class in this trial or Open world: (Probably limited to the past 3 weeks)

That is way more work to implement than a simple party parser.

Seriously people, quit being so scared of having your ability (or lack thereof) aired to your group for all to see. Tanks and healers deal with it every day they DF; so should you.

[Hayward]

That is way more work to implement than a simple party parser.

Seriously people, quit being so scared of having your ability (or lack thereof) aired to your group for all to see. Tanks and healers deal with it every day they DF; so should you.

Guess what will happen if this idiotic suggestion were carried out:

1) A certain forum that poisoned the FFXI community will post these parses in a stickered "Do not invite" thread.

2) Job discrimination will become far worse due to intellectually lazy sheep swallowing whatever the elitists put on the forums.

Group parsers is the absolute LAST thing this game and community needs.

[Asmodai]

Guess what will happen if this idiotic suggestion were carried out:

1) A certain forum that poisoned the FFXI community will post these parses in a stickered "Do not invite" thread.

2) Job discrimination will become far worse due to intellectually lazy sheep swallowing whatever the elitists put on the forums.

Group parsers is the absolute LAST thing this game and community needs.

Everyone that would use a parser already is. They just dont say anything to you, they just replace you if they dont like your dps. If you think that the teams that have cleared savage are not using parsers you are 100% wrong.

[leonsilverberg]

I think a personal parser is a great idea, but I think the median 80% of players would still put up...well, let's just say, less than mediocre numbers (I'm being pretty generous when I say "mediocre" too, my BLM doing thunder and blizzard 1 should not be out-dps'ing other BLMs...). I think a group parser is extremely important for end game play however, and especially given the current state of Savage design, is really the only way to improve and progress.

tl;dr: I'm all for personal parsers, but group parsers should exist for content where it's necessary to progress.

[Ronaldus]

You cannot compare agro to DPS. Period. Different classes generate agro at different rates from my experience.

Was skimming over some other posts. Regarding dragoon's elusive jump. If a dragoon is having to use Elusive Jump because the tank lost agro, there are probably some larger issues at hand. Every scenario is different but some of the ones I can think of off hand are: The tank's agro generation is inadequate (yes blame the tank for not holding agro. no excuses, even on openers.), dragoon is attack the wrong target(?), main tank died and the OT hasn't generated agro. Now there are an infinite amount of different scenarios out there in which a DRG could inadvertently get agro but elusive jump isn't necessarily used for that. In fact I see the agro halving part of elusive jump more as a crutch for helping out an undergeared tank in a dungeon. In a raid scenario (especially a static group) it's most useful for positioning quickly to INCREASE DPS. Not reduce emnity.

[Ronaldus]

That said, while raiding or dungeoning ANYTHING could happen. Know what your skills do and how and when to use them is what is most critical. Using Elusive to move out of an AOE is waste, but what if you were stunned or slowed? Then it's a DPS gain to not die. But what could you have done to avoid the stun? OR oops the tank died, do I want to elusive jump? Probably not. I probably want to hit all my defensives and then sprint to kite the mobs away until the tank returns. Once the tank returns maybe then elusive in order to help restablish agro.

tl:dr
agro is irrelevant to dps (abilities reduce agro, classes generate agro at different rates, people may die, etc etc etc)
dps is irrelevant to good playing ability
good playing ability includes knowing when and how to use ALL of your abilities in various situations

[Ronaldus]

Also, parsers are used for more than just calculating DPS. They're also used to look at who was using what buffs when. Like, if your Dragoon buddy keeps dieing to the missles on A1S, before you go screaming at the healers it's nice to know, did he have blood for blood up? did he use any defensives (Foresite, Keen Flurry, Second Wind)? Or what if no one caught who had that lightning debuff on T10 and wiped the raid? Parsers are invaluable. And using parsers doesn't mean you have to be a jerk about it either.

[Colorful]

Guess what will happen if this idiotic suggestion were carried out:

1) A certain forum that poisoned the FFXI community will post these parses in a stickered "Do not invite" thread.

2) Job discrimination will become far worse due to intellectually lazy sheep swallowing whatever the elitists put on the forums.

Group parsers is the absolute LAST thing this game and community needs.

Naming and shaming isn't allowed on this forum from what I can recall, and other forums can still do so. Parsers are available already, and SE can't do anything if a player decided to post a parse of a stranger on a 3rd party forum. Regardless of that, the amount of people that post on the 1st party forums amounts to less than 5%, 3rd party forums? Likely less than 0.5%, wouldn't even make an impact.

Job discrimination is only a thing because parsers aren't available to the masses. If a MCH is in your party and you fail a DPS check, guess who the ass that's pulling less than 300 DPS is going to blame, that's right the MCH. People can't exactly disagree with him, and because of the stigma associated with that class they might even be kicked (though it's not as bad now as it used to be). With a parser people will actually be able to prove that they can pull the weight. I see no reason to be against parsers unless you (by you, I mean everyone who dislikes the idea of a parser so much) happen to not be pulling your weight in difficult trials/raids, or want those that don't to get away with it for whatever reason.

[dank1]

Naming and shaming isn't allowed on this forum from

Job discrimination is only a thing because parsers aren't available to the masses. If a MCH is in your party and you fail a DPS check, guess who the ass that's pulling less than 300 DPS is going to blame, that's right the MCH. People can't exactly disagree with him, and because of the stigma associated with that class they might even be kicked (though it's not as bad now as it used to be). With a parser people will actually be able to prove that they can pull the weight. I see no reason to be against parsers unless you (by you, I mean everyone who dislikes the idea of a parser so much) happen to not be pulling your weight in difficult trials/raids, or want those that don't to get away with it for whatever .

Bravo for this.
+3827262 for you sir.

Definitely not fair when you have somebody shit talking you 90% of a run when theyre performing under you, the arrogancy and ignorance of some players who claim to be casuals is astonishing, specially when they decide to pretend to be pros

[loreleidiangelo]

snip

I'm starting to think people like you are the last thing this community needs, who vehemently reject tools and information out of some kind of irrational exclusion paranoia. Nearly every thread within which you spew has you calling people who analyze any sort of information as "bean counters" who are always looking for ways to "discriminate" against the "casual players".

These forums have some of the highest anti-skill sentiment I have ever seen. If you are even remotely capable you are a "no-lifer" and if you prefer to consort with people who value that same competence in themselves you are an "elitist". If you even abstractly express a wish for a tool that would allow the community to better itself you are constantly sneered at with the non-rebuttal, "it's just a game; I play to have fun".

As though people who want an in-game parser, who remove underperforming players from farm parties, and who clear the highest level of raiding content with reasonable speed don't also play to "have fun". /eyeroll

On topic, a personal parser is a step in the right direction, though it won't solve the majority of problems that groups face. At worst, you'll have to go through the hassle of everyone posting screenshots of their individual parse values after every wipe in a farm party, which depending on your game interface (ie, PC vs. console) may not be so easy to provide. If you don't provide that info, you'll likely be replaced anyway, so I don't see much value in such a thing.

A dummy parse isn't bad, because while it is not indicative of actual encounters it still demonstrates whether or not a player has a basic grasp of the button sequences required to succeed at their chosen role. I don't think a player that pulls a perfect or near-perfect rotation on a dummy would be significantly impaired by boss mechanics...at least not to the extent that it would cause a group of equally-as-skilled players to wipe. I'd actually prefer a dummy parse over a personal one that displays after every encounter, mostly because the latter would lead to a lot of complications.

Obviously, what I would TRULY prefer is that everyone put on their big kid britches and rally for an actual in-game party parser that displays DPS for every encounter to be implemented. But I'd accept alternatives, as it would at least give motivated players the tools to try and better themselves.