Parsers and Problems

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Seriously, please go read that topic. The disabilities argument was made. And I rebutted that one too.

Outside of where a disability might directly impair someone's ability to play this game, it is NOT, and should not be an excuse to NOT try to do well or improve.

And that's all the pro-parser side really wants: Improvement. For ourselves, and for those who want to improve. A parser will not magically change someone with no desire to improve or play better at all, just like rules and getting reported wouldn't stop those who would abuse it anyways. Don't like parsers? That's fine. But please don't use cynicism, disability, or a lack of desire to improve as valid counter-argument to what would otherwise be a VERY useful tool.

[Nightray]

@AlphaSonic

That's not what i said at all.

I said this game is meant to be accessible to everyone, giving people the tools to further exclude individuals from content they are paying to access is wrong, people can and do clear content without parser because they practice, parsers create pissing contests out of team content. It isn't difficult to see if someone needs to improve without a parser being used. Those 7 people are free to form a static with an 8th and do the content until everyone is up to scratch, rather than just using a parser, degrading someone and then ditching and replacing them.

[Nep_Nep]

-peeks into thread-

I'd just like a personal one. -on ps4- I wouldn't share mine. I'm curious and I want to know if I'm doing stuff right At least with one I'd know if I'm stepping in the right direction whenever I try to improve and adjust my rotation. Maybe they could make like a /parse command that displays only your dps on screen or something and make some rule where its your choice to share it or not.

Just my thoughts. hahaha
-runs out of thread-

[AlphaSonic]

@AlphaSonic Snip.

That's not true, do you know how many times i ran Bismarck Extreme as a healer in party finder and we couldn't reach phase 3 because we didn't reach enough DPS? Lots of times. No one had a parser so we didn't know what we were doing wrong and sorry but after 3/4/5 wipes maybe we should consider what's happening to those DPS that can reach optimal DPS. Maybe it was 2 people underperforming and the other 2 were fine. That's demoralizing for those 2 DPS that did well and the healers that managed to heal everything until phase 2 enrage, and the tanks that switched mobs. Feeling impotent because you don't know your DPS and you don't how to improve it.

And if you are so scared about their abuse. Just do the same you do when you get a teammate that insults you.
Moreover all people who play here pay for our content. Why shouldn't I be able to enjoy finishing Ravana Extreme if I perform optimally. If you (people) are so scared about the truth of your DPS... Well it's your problem, it's not my problem if this forum have a lack of self-esteem and they are so scared about being told the truth.

If the truth is told rudely, then you can report them. If it is told politely, why should you complain if you are the one underperforming?

Edit: When I say you I mean plural people.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I said this game is meant to be accessible to everyone, giving people the tools to further exclude individuals from content they are paying to access is wrong

I ask you this then: How is Lootmaster, Company Chest access, Vote Kick, or Party Finder any different from a parser in that case? All of those can be just as equally abused.

Let's PLEASE move beyond the argument that "Parsers can be abused or used to exclude people" once and for all. PLENTY of well established, community-accepted tools and features already exist in game already that can be abused. Sometimes they are, but most times they are not.

Or are we all so untrustworthy as players that we simply can't have nice things? Really, take a moment to give that due thought.

[zcrash970]

@AlphaSonic

That's not what i said at all.

I said this game is meant to be accessible to everyone, giving people the tools to further exclude individuals from content they are paying to access is wrong, people can and do clear content without parser because they practice, parsers create pissing contests out of team content. It isn't difficult to see if someone needs to improve without a parser being used. Those 7 people are free to form a static with an 8th and do the content until everyone is up to scratch, rather than just using a parser, degrading someone and then ditching and replacing them.

It's funny that you assume that everyone that uses parsers will inherently use it to "degrade" another player. You do realize that makes up a very tiny part of the player base, right? Not saying it will not happen but it will happen far less than you think.

Also, it is hard to improve without some kind of feedback. Unless you have someone that knows your class well and he/she is watching you and giving you tips or you are doing a parse by hand, you are not going to learn anyways that you can improve.

Oh, by the way, it is easy to tell who is holding back a group even without parsers. They are removed from groups with or without numbers.

[Nightray]

I ask you this then: How is Lootmaster, Company Chest access, Vote Kick, or Party Finder any different from a parser in that case? All of those can be just as equally abused.

You're not wrong that those existing tools can be used to exclude or abuse people but that isn't fair reason to add another one. Want to put out max damage? Don't need a parser to tell me that you need to learn your optimal rotation, use your cooldowns appropriately, deal with mechanics when necessary and dodge. And a parser won't solve any of that, only practice and trial and error will.

[KarstenS]

Don't need a parser to tell me that you need to learn your optimal rotation, use your cooldowns appropriately, deal with mechanics when necessary and dodge. And a parser won't solve any of that, only practice and trial and error will.

What do you think how optimal rotations got figured out? And these are for a trainings dummy.

For every encounter its needed to make modifications for getting optimum output.

Both things are not possible without knowing the numbers. For trial and error you need the numbers to be able to compare them.

[sirDarts]

You're not wrong that those existing tools can be used to exclude or abuse people but that isn't fair reason to add another one. Want to put out max damage? Don't need a parser to tell me that you need to learn your optimal rotation, use your cooldowns appropriately, deal with mechanics when necessary and dodge. And a parser won't solve any of that, only practice and trial and error will.

1) Actually it's REALLY hard to figure out YOUR optimal rotation without a parser. While there usually is an optimal rotation for a given job, you might not be able to pull that one off perfectly, and do a better job with a different rotation that better suits your skill/capabilities/the fight.

2) WAY too many people DON'T know that they are not performing to their max capability. They think they are OK. And since there are always at least 2 DPS in any group content, it's super easy to put blame on the other(s). These people have no way to know they are doing bad.

3) NOBODY normal cares about the lacking performance of any of their team members, AS LONG AS the content is getting cleared. Your tank loses agro, but you still manage to kill without dying? Nobody normal will say a word. Your healer dies or lets someone die, but you still clear? Nobody normal will say a word. The DPS is low and the fight takes long, but still gets cleared? Nobody normal will say a word. And those that are not normal will cry no matter if they have a parser or not, they will just attack 2-4 people instead of 1 if the DPS is low. Nothing really changes.

And as was already said, if your "performance" hinders the progression of the party. Be it because you fail mechanics, because you lose agro, because you can keep up with healing, or because you can't pull your weight as DPS. YOU SHOULD NOT BE is said content till you get better, or get better gear.

[mp-please]

You don't need a parse to know if dps is being bad. When you're on stuff such as faust NM, have both healers dpsing and manage to get to enrage, you know kicks need to be ensued.