Parsers and Problems

[melisande]

[QUOTE=Ashkendor; I don't think anyone's come out and said that a parser is necessary. Plenty of people have said that it's a useful tool, though. People that use parsers are generally the type of people that like having more information about things. Our character stats grow and change, and it's much easier to make adjustments to your rotation (and know if those adjustments are beneficial) if you can parse the damage you're doing. It can help you with equipment as well, as far as choosing which secondary stats are most beneficial. Do you think the optimal rotation was just suddenly a thing that everyone knew how to do? People most likely sat there for hours with parsers going over different rotations and seeing which was the best for them. [/QUOTE]

No. You are arguing that " Do you think the optimal rotation was just suddenly a thing that everyone knew how to do? People most likely sat there for hours with parsers going over different rotations and seeing which was the best for them." That is simply not true. I am a BLM since 1.0 launch, i have learned and fine tuned my rotation by simply using my brain and my eyes. Like I said, its something that is actually intuitive and simply comes from playing the game istelf, a lot like an instrument, a very linear one at that (like a piano). You can read tablature or sheet music all day long for reference, but when it comes down to it, it's really your own intuition, and musical inclination.

[Malevicton]

snip

That's... not really how music works. It's very mathematical actually. You can get pretty far by ear, but after a while you really need to learn some basic music theory if you want to keep getting better. You picked a very poor analogy. Or maybe you accidentally picked a really appropriate analogy since most of what was wrong with it translates to why you're wrong about parses. Who knows?

Brain and eyes can get you pretty far. But if you want to really optimize, then that's where parsers come in.

[melisande]

That's... not really how music works. It's very mathematical actually. You can get pretty far by ear, but after a while you really need to learn some basic music theory if you want to keep getting better. You picked a very poor analogy. Or maybe you accidentally picked a really appropriate analogy since most of what was wrong with it translates to why you're wrong about parses. Who knows?

Brain and eyes can get you pretty far. But if you want to really optimize, then that's where parsers come in.

Maybe you should listen to some Beethoven who came up with some of the most mathematically complex music to this date, and he was deaf. Nice try though?

[Malevicton]

Maybe you should listen to some Beethoven who came up with some of the most mathematically complex music to this date, and he was deaf. Nice try though?

near-deaf. It got worse as he aged but he could generally hear himself if he listened closely (especially for his earlier works), which is why he was always awkwardly bent over the instrument. and wouldn't that just show that music theory is just as (if not more) important than going by ear? Because your analogy was going the opposite way...


From http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....rote-music-2/:
"All of Beethoven’s achievements above were done—as far as we can tell—with quite good hearing. This soon changed. Starting around 1796, we have references of Beethoven mentioning in letters hearing “buzzing noises,” but it wouldn’t be until 1801 when we have documented evidence that he had been gradually going deaf."

[melisande]

No, it shows that it is intuitive. You can think of your rotation as a piano itself, the rotation can be changed and optimized however you see fit, and as you know is extremely situational. No single rotation is correct. Every song would sound exactly the same if that were the case. Beethoven wrote his own music, he didn't write it from reading other peoples "rotations" or "compositions", or by analyzing his "spectrals" of his music (which at the time they did not have the technology for spectral analysis).

[Malevicton]

No, it shows that it is intuitive. You can think of your rotation as a piano itself, the rotation can be changed and optimized however you see fit, and as you know is extremely situational. No single rotation is correct. Every song would sound exactly the same if that were the case. Beethoven wrote his own music, he didn't write it from reading other peoples "rotations" or "compositions".

Not really "however you see fit" though. You need to adapt to mechanics, but not every reaction is equal. There actually are single correct rotations for certain situations, especially as it approaches a dummy fight.

All in all, it doesn't matter. A parser would just be an affirmation of your intuition. Just because you play a piano part without sheet music doesn't mean you couldn't put it into sheet music (in fact that would never be true). Every intuitive piece of music can be articulated on sheet music, and every rotation can be parsed.

Can we please ditch the music analogy from here? I really don't feel like you have a solid understanding of how music works.

[melisande]

Not really "however you see fit" though. You need to adapt to mechanics, but not every reaction is equal. There actually are single correct rotations for certain situations, especially as it approaches a dummy fight.

All in all, it doesn't matter. A parser would just be an affirmation of your intuition. Just because you play a piano part without sheet music doesn't mean you couldn't put it into sheet music (in fact that would never be true). Every intuitive piece of music can be articulated on sheet music, and every rotation can be parsed.

Can we please ditch the music analogy from here? I really don't feel like you have a solid understanding of how music works.

Music is math my friend. That is all I have to say, and you can continue on with your rant about why parsers are necessary.

[Malevicton]

Music is math my friend. That is all I have to say, and you can continue on with your rant about why parsers are necessary.

So it's not intuition? Because you've been saying it's intuition...

I'm so done with these forums, but I keep coming back for some reason. Will they ban on request or do I have to make a scene?

[Aoxaviar]

I personally have to agree with the 2nd option put up by the original posts comment.

A training area with a striking dummy, or several striking dummies (for AOE related spells and affects, so we would know just how effective they are) would be a great thing. I am also really excited about the fact that SE and Yoshi-P have said they are making a "Training Area" for this.

Thoughts - Solo access:
1. "Training Area" by SE - best guess is that we will see the Galdiator's stadium open up for this and we will be able to spare against an NPC or series of them (good way to test a battle arena mechanics for the gold saucer too!) this could also be expanded so that 4 players or 8 players can match wits against past bosses (or even extreme primals) for teaching battle mechs to new FC players.

2. Adding to each of the City-states a instanted area where we could access the same content, but the room/dojo will be more like how the Inn Rooms change between each city-state.

Thoughts - Free Company Access:
1. Personal Favorite - Remove 1 or several private rooms in the FC housing and provide the FC with a Dojo / Training Room which is accessible by up to 8 FC members for a 4 on 4 training session or can be singled out and a player can spare against dummies, or even past bosses.

2. Limitation on the above - FC's who own more than one home, would only be able to build 1 training room.

Additional Thoughts:
A. Additional Storage - I know that it seems like SE has decided that more retainers is the anwser, but why haven't they decided to remove 10 private rooms from FC housing and change them into 1 FC store room?

B. Or take the 10 private rooms, and then provide the FC with a storeroom made from 5 of them, and provide an instant storeroom for solo players accessible from a warehouse location in either 1 or all the city-states?

I would think that with how long housing has been running, and being able to take a scope of what is going on with it and all of its mechanics across all of the servers, SE should be able to find some originally allocated space that is not being used (or even touched in some cases - my FC, I am the only holder of a private room.)

Since it seems like SE's Dev team is starting to get real with some of the fringe problems (like Parsing which would allow us to be able to max how we use each class/job) I think its time they also either come clean, or serious discuss housing and the expansion of it going forward.

I saw it during my run through The Rising, and noticed that MrHappy during is broadcast of it, totally missed it (but he also missed all of what the talk bubble NPCs had to say) coming from who MrHappy believes is the CEO of SE:

"I hear you've found some new housing." (Direct Quote from game on the 18th Floor at 09-07-2011 at 2:15am)

I know that we can't totally take everything as Biblical truth from this, but it does make me wonder why a Machinist with a gun in Yoshi-san's 18 floor office would mention "found some new housing" but be really dry with the comment.

I wonder if it means we can sell off private housing rooms? Who knows.

[AoiEleanor]

I have to say I totally agree with having the personal parser on target dummies or something of the like to give people a very general idea of how they doing. I believe they are adding in something like this in future and it was mentioned already in this thread.

I also want to say that I agree with a personal, NON postable, NON linkable "dps meter" for any Duty. I think its important that people can improve on their own personal dps without being harassed by other players, because lets be honest more players then not harass other people with the current parser in game. I have healed numerous groups and watched as people berated one another over something so stupid. Mind you I did report them but that doesn't take away the awful experience that the person being put down had to go through. It happens a lot more then most people will acknowledge.

Anyways I am sure various opinions like this one have already been expressed in some form but I wanted to have my own put out there.