Parsers and Problems

[Reinha]

Not in

• Ex primals
• Savage

I think content that has forced dps checks should have a party-wide parser, or at least an option for it. Everywhere else a personal parser would be the best solution for personal evaluation.

A party wide parser only in ex trials and savage raids sounds good to me. But make sure it contains not only dps parse but also number of dispels, healing per second, overhealing %, damage taken per second, number of revives, number of deaths, healing taken from different sources, damage taken from different sources, buff uptime, total healing, total damage done and total damage taken. Like Recount or Skada in WoW does. So when that healer with 0 dispels, three times the damage taken from aoe and one death tells you to git gud, you can point out they have some things to improve as well.

[Colorful]

snip

I think there's zero chance we'll ever get something that complex for SE, I mean the only thing PvP has is damage dealt, damage received, deaths and kills, and tome captures. No kill assists, points for defending nodes, amount healed (I don't think that's in it anyway?), etc. Stuff that I think would be pretty vital to that frontlines.

When they're done with their addon API (if it's not half assed) someone will develop an addon like Skada. People talk like it's the worst thing in existence, but in truth rarely did anyone in WoW care if you were doing shit DPS in dungeons, even with DPS meters available. There are a few rotten people around, but that's no reason to keep something away from the majority.

[hagare]

first off parsers are good and bad.

Eh, parser's a tool. It's neither good or bad
Just like a knife, you wouldn't call a knife bad will you?

Play how you want. But don't be surprised when people vote kick you for not pulling your weight in contents like ex primals and savage.

also i do not like that people get kicked from certain dungeons just cause they dont remover totems from the circle who cares if u gotta killa few. i report everytime i get kicked for abuse.

Those 3 other people who kicked you seems to care

[Waliel]

People talk like it's the worst thing in existence, but in truth rarely did anyone in WoW care if you were doing shit DPS in dungeons, even with DPS meters available. There are a few rotten people around, but that's no reason to keep something away from the majority.

I can't remember anyone in any game give two shits about the DPS of randoms as long as stuff gets done.

[Malevicton]

I can't remember anyone in any game give two shits about the DPS of randoms as long as stuff gets done.

Pretty much this. People like to brainstorm all the hypothetical problems that parser might bring, and are strangely willing to completely ignore that it doesn't need to be hypothetical. Parsers have a long history in mmo's (and things similar to parsers in other games). We don't need to guess about what will happen, we can look to history. And historically, they've been fine. A few minor problems here and there, but parsing horror stories are exceptionally uncommon.

[Pruviant]

Parsers can be a fantastic tool to shed some light on where the party as a whole can improve. I for one would welcome the addition of one to the game. That being said, there will always be people that are a-holes about it, but that can be said about anything, even the game itself.

On the "omg these elitists kicked me because they said I wasn't doing enough dps" note, you have to be under-performing pretty badly to get kicked because your numbers are low. I have yet to see it in things below Alex normal, but in the endgame stuff, if you are a detriment to the group you *should* be replaced because at that point you are wasting 7 other peoples' time since you obviously aren't prepared. (I say that from a job knowledge standpoint, not a mechanics one)

[Ashkendor]

first off parsers are good and bad. i like the personal parser idea. but dont like group because people tell you ur not doing enough dps in fights. imo dps is over rated just like rotations. just cause one person found optimal rotation doesnt meane very single person has to be able to do it thats crap. like blm i cannot no matter what i do stay above 1k on dummy. and i was i 191. also i do not like that people get kicked from certain dungeons just cause they dont remover totems from the circle who cares if u gotta killa few. i report everytime i get kicked for abuse.

Would you kick a tank that couldn't keep hate and let the mobs run all over killing people? Would you kick a healer that didn't keep people's hp above zero? Why should DPS get to hakuna matata their way through dungeons mashing 4 keys and completely ignoring mechanics? I mean, as a tank or a healer I'll go remove totems from the circle for the DPS so they can keep doing their job, but if I'm doing more damage than they are then I should have every right to leave them to pick up their own. Honestly, in that case they should be picking up mine too. :P

Everyone should be reasonably expected to follow dungeon mechanics. Not doing so is basically thumbing your nose at the other three people stuck with you in the dungeon and telling them you don't give enough of a crap about their time to even do things properly. I'm not talking about messing up here - everyone messes up sometimes - but blatantly ignoring mechanics over and over again will just get you a (well-earned) vote kick. There's nothing abusive about it. You're not pulling your weight. You're making the dungeon take longer, and just generally implying that you're too lazy to do much more than queue, accept, and set yourself to "follow" in the first room. I queue so that I can get my daily tomes, not so I can carry other people for theirs while they play with their phone or watch tv.

I don't think my expectations are at all out of line here. I don't expect people to be perfect. I don't expect everyone I run into to put out Savage-quality damage. What I do expect is that people will at least put forth a modicum of effort to make clearing the dungeon a reasonable proposition. If they don't, then they get the Weakest Link treatment. I have yet to be talked to by a GM about "abusing" the vote kick system this way, but if I was I would have no problem telling the GM exactly why the player was removed from the dungeon. If you're going to be kicking back and expecting the other three people to carry your dead weight, don't bother queueing.

[melisande]

What is this strange perception that a parser is 'necessary'? Just play the game and learn your rotation. Saying a parser is necessary is like saying Guitar Hero is necessary to learn guitar. Simply LEARN the rotation. Use your EYES. Play the game. A lot. You will learn and build upon your rotation, and a parser wont help you do that, its something that is intuitive, and comes to you as you play your job more.

[DPZ2]

I can't remember anyone in any game give two shits about the DPS of randoms as long as stuff gets done.

I've been reading several lines of reasoning about this today, and there are definitely posters who do appear to care if DPS in a daily roulette inconveniences them because it takes 10 minutes longer to complete.

They want an excuse to kick folks out of that instance, and a DPS parser is precisely the tool they'll [ab]use, if given the chance.

Sure, let's have a damage Parser, but make it unusable in any Story Mode instance. That should satisfy about 90% of the non-vocal crowd. Not everyone in this game plays at Extreme Primal/Savage Mode Alex levels, nor are they trying to do so.

[Malevicton]

What is this strange perception that a parser is 'necessary'? Just play the game and learn your rotation. Saying a parser is necessary is like saying Guitar Hero is necessary to learn guitar. Simply LEARN the rotation. Use your EYES. Play the game. A lot. You will learn and build upon your rotation, and a parser wont help you do that, its something that is intuitive, and comes to you as you play your job more.

It'd be more like saying being able to hear what you play is necessary to learn guitar. Which is still technically isn't. Deaf people can play music. But it's much easier if you can hear yourself.

Which is also all people are saying. No one has said a parser is necessary, you're making that up to argue against an easier point. We're all just saying that it's helpful information with no real downsides.