Parsers and Problems

[sirDarts]

Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

You have to understand even if your DPS is greater that doesn't mean your dodging skills or healing skills or mechanics of the fight are going correctly so even if you were to kick the lowest person with the DPS you are not going to win.

Plus it almost sounds like you want to try and get someone with better attack damage to win you the fight and does all the work for your team you kick till that is accomplished then never return to the fight cause well if you went through all that work to win something's a problem. It aint the dps.

If his abysmally low DPS means the content is not getting cleared, then he is wasting the time, and thus interfering with the enjoyment, of 3 or 7 other players. Those players are also paying a subscription... 3 > 1, 7 > 1... So yeah...

And when the content is getting cleared? NOBODY GIVES A DAMN about low DPS then! And those who do are just idiots and would be the same no matter if they have a parser or not.

[Zeonx]

If his abysmally low DPS means the content is not getting cleared, then he is wasting the time, and thus interfering with the enjoyment of 3 or 7 other players. Those players are also paying a subscription... 3 > 1, 7 > 1... So yeah...

And when the content is getting cleared? NOBODY GIVES A DAMN about low DPS then! And those who do are just idiots and would be the same no matter if they have a parser or not.

As like the forums, nobody is going to agree with a parser because it causes problems in the community and SE doesn't want problems in the game and then that goes back to the forums with more complaints.

Cause I don't agree with the parsering I see the attitudes of people who use them, its a video game people need to stop cussing and judging people how they play the game and calling them stupid and other crap because they can't beat a virtual monster.

That isn't anyones right to do, you are saying its justified you are wrong.

People have to dodge aoe's also do you guys also count that some just cant attack, blm's casting gets messed up or dps have to move out of way or there is a stack of aoe dmg on ground they cant get around or one person dies and is weakened so they die easy to dmg.

as I said parser's should not be allowed in game. gives people poor judgement over others causes problems.

[Odett]

Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

You have to understand even if your DPS is greater that doesn't mean your dodging skills or healing skills or mechanics of the fight are going correctly so even if you were to kick the lowest person with the DPS you are not going to win.

Plus it almost sounds like you want to try and get someone with better attack damage to win you the fight and does all the work for your team you kick till that is accomplished then never return to the fight cause well if you went through all that work to win something's a problem. It aint the dps.

Ok, let's get started...

"Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met."

Paying for your subscription only allows you to log into the game when it is up. H.ave you even entered Alex Savage? There is no set iLv requirement.

"You have to understand even if your DPS is greater that doesn't mean your dodging skills or healing skills or mechanics of the fight are going correctly so even if you were to kick the lowest person with the DPS you are not going to win."

Faust is a target dummy fight. There is no dodging. Healing skills don't matter if Faust enrages. He has to be killed before he enrages. Hence the term "DPS race".

"Plus it almost sounds like you want to try and get someone with better attack damage to win you the fight and does all the work for your team you kick till that is accomplished then never return to the fight cause well if you went through all that work to win something's a problem. It aint the dps."

...what? That was a bit hard to understand, but to answer your question, having a parser would allow us to see where everyone stands DPS-wise. This would let us know if we need to get better gear, or if someone is underperforming, find out why and see how we can improve our group DPS instead of asking "what went wrong?". By now I can tell that you haven't done any raid content when it is viable because one dps cannot carry a group. My static is not at the level of carrying other players. We need everyone to put forth a good amount of effort so we can clear these fights. We have no space for someone wanting to get carried.

[Kaurie]

As like the forums, nobody is going to agree with a parser because it causes problems in the community and SE doesn't want problems in the game and then that goes back to the forums with more complaints.

Cause I don't agree with the parsering I see the attitudes of people who use them, its a video game people need to stop cussing and judging people how they play the game and calling them stupid and other crap because they can't beat a virtual monster.

That isn't anyones right to do, you are saying its justified you are wrong.

People have to dodge aoe's also do you guys also count that some just cant attack, blm's casting gets messed up or dps have to move out of way or there is a stack of aoe dmg on ground they cant get around or one person dies and is weakened so they die easy to dmg.

as I said parser's should not be allowed in game. gives people poor judgement over others causes problems.

It is concerning that you apply everyone who uses a parser under the same category of personalty. You go on to say that people are wrong for cussing/insulting others, which is true, but don't think about the fact that you are acting in a very prejudice manner. (Which I hope you can agree is also wrong).

I personally agree with parsers, as do many, which negates your "nobody is going to agree with a parser".

This game mechanically needs one, there are too many situations where it's necessary. People get around that by using 3rd party stuff and don't talk about it, but that's pretty lame in my opinion. Content is designed around tight DPS checks.

Additionally, parsers do a great job of pointing out who messes up on mechanics. Often someone's DPS is low because they keep dying and messing up mechanics. Personally? I go from 1100 to 700 dps often when I die before the wipe on my progression runs.

[sirDarts]

As like the forums, nobody is going to agree with a parser because it causes problems in the community and SE doesn't want problems in the game and then that goes back to the forums with more complaints.

Cause I don't agree with the parsering I see the attitudes of people who use them, its a video game people need to stop cussing and judging people how they play the game and calling them stupid and other crap because they can't beat a virtual monster.

That isn't anyones right to do, you are saying its justified you are wrong.

People have to dodge aoe's also do you guys also count that some just cant attack, blm's casting gets messed up or dps have to move out of way or there is a stack of aoe dmg on ground they cant get around or one person dies and is weakened so they die easy to dmg.

as I said parser's should not be allowed in game. gives people poor judgement over others causes problems.

Parsers are just a tool. Tools can be abused sure, but they are still useful! Parsers are incredibly useful for many things, be it personal development, challenge, figuring out the issue in content that's not getting clear, etc...

FFXIV has one of the most mature and nice communities on the MMO market. I am fairly certain that more than 90% of people would not abuse parser, and those that would could easily just be punished for abuse... There is no reason to deny a useful tool to 90% of the community because of 10% of rotten apples...
I have really done A LOT of DF runs. A LOT! And I have met very few people who commented at all about someone else's abilities/skill/etc. Like in many hundreds of runs I have met maybe a dozen. Sure I don't count people who just instaleave when something goes wrong, but those are not really abusers in my eyes.
For example today I did Trial Roulette, got Titan HM, like 3 or 4 people were new. We wiped pretty quick on our first try because of some stupid mistakes, even on my part, nobody complained. Second try the second healer got pushed off right after the second jump, people kept dying to bombs/AoE, and I had to soloheal. We cleared with an average of 2 DPS being dead ever since the Heart phase. Did someone complain? Did someone push blame? Did someone get angry? Nope. The only comment about personal skill was: "Gj Elyza, thanks" from one of the tanks.

As for your "you have no right to judge others!":
1) You are wrong, every single person has the right to judge others based on their behaviour/skill/etc and we do it all the time. What you are not allowed to do is to abuse people because of it.
2) Tanks and healers are already getting judged openly all the time, and they don't get any slack cut. They mess up, and they called out, maybe even kicked. While DPS can just stand there autoattacking and nobody will say a word.


Parsers should be allowed in the game.

[Ashkendor]

Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

I pay my subscription too. So do the other six people in the party. If one person's low DPS is holding the group back and they can't or won't improve, then yes the only solution is to kick them. Why disband when one person is the problem?

You have to understand even if your DPS is greater that doesn't mean your dodging skills or healing skills or mechanics of the fight are going correctly so even if you were to kick the lowest person with the DPS you are not going to win.

I think you meant "you may not win," which is entirely true. The thing is, people that use parsers don't just look at numbers and go "omg these are low." They have to take into account the structure of the encounter itself. Faust tends to have very high numbers on parses because the best strategy is to have one tank take the boss and all the adds and everyone else go to town. That means that any AoE ability is picking up ticks on all the adds. Add to that the fact that Faust is basically a striking dummy that hits back and you end up with some really inflated DPS numbers. On the other hand, fights like T9 tend to have lower numbers on account of downtime while you're waiting for mechanics to go off (iron chariot, megaflare, divebombs, etc).

Plus it almost sounds like you want to try and get someone with better attack damage to win you the fight and does all the work for your team you kick till that is accomplished then never return to the fight cause well if you went through all that work to win something's a problem. It aint the dps.

Or maybe we just want to get someone that performs equal to or better than the people we already have.

One DPS can't carry in Savage, but you do need all four performing well to clear it.

As like the forums, nobody is going to agree with a parser because it causes problems in the community and SE doesn't want problems in the game and then that goes back to the forums with more complaints.

Completely untrue. I'd love to have an ingame parser.

Cause I don't agree with the parsering I see the attitudes of people who use them, its a video game people need to stop cussing and judging people how they play the game and calling them stupid and other crap because they can't beat a virtual monster.

If someone uses a hammer to hit someone else's hand, does that mean we should outlaw hammers even though they're incredibly useful? That's precisely the mentality you're taking with parsers here. A parser is a tool, nothing more and nothing less. Unfortunately, stupid people have the same access to tools that the rest of us do; the difference is that they usually use them incorrectly. Even if I am parsing and someone's DPS is less than stellar, I see no need to confront that person about it unless it's holding us back from completing content. Even in that case, there's ways to go about it without cussing and berating people. I usually just tell them that it's not working out, and they may need to do some tweaking on their gear or some research into their rotation.

That isn't anyones right to do, you are saying its justified you are wrong.

People have to dodge aoe's also do you guys also count that some just cant attack, blm's casting gets messed up or dps have to move out of way or there is a stack of aoe dmg on ground they cant get around or one person dies and is weakened so they die easy to dmg.

Again, people that know what they're doing with a parser take these things into account. BLMs aren't expected to put up as much DPS in movement-heavy fights, but honestly a good BLM can do really well once they get familiar with an encounter and know where to position themselves for different phases. Deaths, however, are not an excuse for low DPS. If someone is dying repeatedly, it is a problem that needs to be addressed. What's killing them? Is it a healer issue or do they need to learn to dodge? Maybe there's a mechanic we don't fully understand. Parsers also show you what healing spells were cast on who, how much overheal there was, how long the encounter lasted, what skills hit who, and how many times everyone died.

as I said parser's should not be allowed in game. gives people poor judgement over others causes problems.

This to me is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand and pretending DPS problems can't be easily fixed.

[Zeonx]

Yeah that's you, I am talking about others who agree with me.

What you all fail to understand is as long as there are people like me who don't want a in game parser there will be no in game parser and I am not talking about the training one they are going to be releasing.

I am talking about the one you guys use to judge people on how they play, some people would agree with me on this subject but I am done explaining cause I don't want to say something that might get one of you upset and report me on forums and try to get me temp banned.

Cause some people get bent out of shape even for small things like this. So cya.

[Sove92]

What you all fail to understand is as long as there are people like me who don't want a in game parser there will be no in game parser.

Are you for real? There are people who didn't want old content nerfed and it still happened.

They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

With this mentality, vote kick should also be removed, because you know, that troll you wanted to kick has paid their sub as well. Sorry but this comment fails so hard it's unbelievable it was even used. No one can stop you from accessing certain content, that's what you have paid for, it's just that players have the right to choose who they play with.

That mentality is like demanding a world-tier group to take you in their group because you have paid for the content and are entitled to play it.

[Souto_Nami]

Because of the fact that dps checks do exist in the game I do think that they are needed in the game. However, the only place they should exist is in encounters with said checks. Anywhere else it'll do more harm than good simply because the ratio between people that want to play optimally vs people that just want to play out don't care as long as the content is cleared leans pretty heavily away from the optimal players.

This way, it will give people the tool they need to meet certain mechanics the game throws at them without affecting anything for the bigger audience.

As a side note (and I really don't mean to insult anyone here, it's just my opinion only) you people that play for progress and find it fun are the reason why mmos have stopped focusing on the community and why the sandbox genre just isn't successful with mmos anymore. Talking about wiping continuously as a waste of time when playing a game (and an mmo at that) IIIIS a waste of time and nothing you ever accomplish in a game will ever mean anything (friendships and marriages excluded, those are everlasting <3) and we all need to start acknowledging that.

Again, don't mean to insult anyone. Everyone has different play styles and my or your preferences are not more important than someone else's. I'm sure we all enjoy this world that is ff14 otherwise we wouldn't be playing it.

So parsers for situations where they're needed, not for when it wouldn't objectively help (no, speed running and rushing through content is not objective, that's subjective) and everyone is invited for ice cream at my house, free hugs at the door too <(^_^)>

[Mimoza]

In my opinion an in-game parser is a very good idea (at least with the option to display your own dps, for research and self improvement purpose).
Last time in fc chat we were speaking about the use of a parser. We finally ended up with that analogy : when you are raiding, it's like you are driving a car. Now for example Faust in A1s could be a speed limitation telling you "if you don't drive at least at 110km/h then you can't enter this road". That's where parsers are useful, how can you know at what speed you are driving without something displays you the number?
Then okay some ppl will say "you'll know that your dps is good when you'll beat the fight". Ok, but sometimes that means waiting months to earn more gear, while the problem isn't the stats of your armor but your skill rotation. You can still try to blindly test different rotations, but how can you know if one was better ? Are you driving at 30km/h on a highway because you don't know if you are pushing enough on the pedal ? (if so, i'm glad to just meet you in a game and not in a real car)
I am pretty sure 99.9% of the persons raiding in that game are looking on google for guides about what is the Best in Slot gear for their job, what is the best between spell/skill speed and determination/crit etc... How do you think all that theory-crafting is made ? SE never released the algorithm used for the calculation of your damages depending on the det/crit/ss, so ppl had to try by themselves, using different gear, spending hours looking at the numbers of their parsers on different situations to end up sharing their ideas with other players about what they think is the best solution to improve your gear/rotation etc...
So, ok, some ppl are bullying players in dungeons trashtalking about dps numbers and things, but for the ppl who are trying to help the community, sharing their results about BiS and skill management (and i can tell you, it takes hours to see a difference between two rotations because you first have to master the new rotation at 100% to really see a benefit) we should all be happy if a legal way to mesure your dps was added in the game.