Parsers and Problems

[Mimoza]

In my opinion an in-game parser is a very good idea (at least with the option to display your own dps, for research and self improvement purpose).
Last time in fc chat we were speaking about the use of a parser. We finally ended up with that analogy : when you are raiding, it's like you are driving a car. Now for example Faust in A1s could be a speed limitation telling you "if you don't drive at least at 110km/h then you can't enter this road". That's where parsers are useful, how can you know at what speed you are driving without something displays you the number?
Then okay some ppl will say "you'll know that your dps is good when you'll beat the fight". Ok, but sometimes that means waiting months to earn more gear, while the problem isn't the stats of your armor but your skill rotation. You can still try to blindly test different rotations, but how can you know if one was better ? Are you driving at 30km/h on a highway because you don't know if you are pushing enough on the pedal ? (if so, i'm glad to just meet you in a game and not in a real car)
I am pretty sure 99.9% of the persons raiding in that game are looking on google for guides about what is the Best in Slot gear for their job, what is the best between spell/skill speed and determination/crit etc... How do you think all that theory-crafting is made ? SE never released the algorithm used for the calculation of your damages depending on the det/crit/ss, so ppl had to try by themselves, using different gear, spending hours looking at the numbers of their parsers on different situations to end up sharing their ideas with other players about what they think is the best solution to improve your gear/rotation etc...
So, ok, some ppl are bullying players in dungeons trashtalking about dps numbers and things, but for the ppl who are trying to help the community, sharing their results about BiS and skill management (and i can tell you, it takes hours to see a difference between two rotations because you first have to master the new rotation at 100% to really see a benefit) we should all be happy if a legal way to mesure your dps was added in the game.

[Souto_Nami]

Because of the fact that dps checks do exist in the game I do think that they are needed in the game. However, the only place they should exist is in encounters with said checks. Anywhere else it'll do more harm than good simply because the ratio between people that want to play optimally vs people that just want to play out don't care as long as the content is cleared leans pretty heavily away from the optimal players.

This way, it will give people the tool they need to meet certain mechanics the game throws at them without affecting anything for the bigger audience.

As a side note (and I really don't mean to insult anyone here, it's just my opinion only) you people that play for progress and find it fun are the reason why mmos have stopped focusing on the community and why the sandbox genre just isn't successful with mmos anymore. Talking about wiping continuously as a waste of time when playing a game (and an mmo at that) IIIIS a waste of time and nothing you ever accomplish in a game will ever mean anything (friendships and marriages excluded, those are everlasting <3) and we all need to start acknowledging that.

Again, don't mean to insult anyone. Everyone has different play styles and my or your preferences are not more important than someone else's. I'm sure we all enjoy this world that is ff14 otherwise we wouldn't be playing it.

So parsers for situations where they're needed, not for when it wouldn't objectively help (no, speed running and rushing through content is not objective, that's subjective) and everyone is invited for ice cream at my house, free hugs at the door too <(^_^)>

[sirDarts]

As a side note (and I really don't mean to insult anyone here, it's just my opinion only) you people that play for progress and find it fun are the reason why mmos have stopped focusing on the community and why the sandbox genre just isn't successful with mmos anymore. Talking about wiping continuously as a waste of time when playing a game (and an mmo at that) IIIIS a waste of time and nothing you ever accomplish in a game will ever mean anything (friendships and marriages excluded, those are everlasting <3) and we all need to start acknowledging that.

Wiping continuously without seeing any sort of progress IS a waste of time.
I don't mind trying Bismarck EX for 2 hours straight if I see that we are slowly getting further. But when we are wiping at the exact same spot every single time, it gets incredibly frustrating.

[CarnivalNights]

I can't believe the sorry and poor excuses people come up with to enable being bad where the content requires you to be at your up most peak performance.

[ShaneDawn]

Always the same debate. Parsers do not make people mean. Mean people may abuse it, but those people would be mean even without a parser. Badmouthing everyone that uses a parser is just outright rude. Most people will not care about your numbers as long as you're clearing content. If your dps is holding a party back? Yeah, that's bad, and you shouldn't be expected to be babied around with other people overecerting for your lack of damage. Even then, most people will not be rude about it, but rather ask if you're doing X or telling facts as are.

I get the feeling that the only people against parsers are the ones that are really not pulling their weight at all. If you're doing less than 500dps on content with i180, especially end-game, then yeah, that's bad when I could do more on my lvl 50 bard on 2,5.

For the people arguing that mechanics>dps; true, but they're not mutually exclusive. Good players will both deal decent damage and perform the mechanics to an agreeable standard. You will not be clearing any hard content, if you're dealing less dps than your Warrior friend.

[Elim]

If DPS were held accountable for their actions from the get-go we'd probably have very little if no complaints about parsers on the forums. Now that DPS have been coddled, hell will freeze over before they give it up.

For example SWTOR allows parsers. In all the years I played SWTOR I didn't see a single complaint on the forum about parsers.

It's really a shame that the devs decided to go this way. In the end I think they caused more friction in the community than they stopped.

[Eidolon]

If DPS were held accountable for their actions from the get-go we'd probably have very little if no complaints about parsers on the forums. Now that DPS have been coddled, hell will freeze over before they give it up.

For example SWTOR allows parsers. In all the years I played SWTOR I didn't see a single complaint on the forum about parsers.

It's really a shame that the devs decided to go this way. In the end I think they caused more friction in the community than they stopped.

this is actually a pretty interesting thought! Do you think the cultures evolved differently because of the 'official' response from the Devs, in one case one effectively banning it (meaning that people could hide behind it) vs. the other case where it was publicly allowed (meaning that people embraced it within the community.)


If we ever do get a parse from SE, do you think it will be embraced or do you think it will create people who make PF's saying "No parses allowed"? Do you think there will be a negative reaction to its presence?

Before anyone counters that players will leave en-masse if a Parse is introduced, do keep in mind that many successful MMO's have had the presence of parses without issue. I don't think a large portion of the playerbase will be affected or will act upon it.

[Verius_Nox]

this is actually a pretty interesting thought! Do you think the cultures evolved differently because of the 'official' response from the Devs, in one case one effectively banning it (meaning that people could hide behind it) vs. the other case where it was publicly allowed (meaning that people embraced it within the community.)


If we ever do get a parse from SE, do you think it will be embraced or do you think it will create people who make PF's saying "No parses allowed"? Do you think there will be a negative reaction to its presence?

Before anyone counters that players will leave en-masse if a Parse is introduced, do keep in mind that many successful MMO's have had the presence of parses without issue. I don't think a large portion of the playerbase will be affected or will act upon it.

There will be crying for a good month or so, but it'll end up dying down as people grow to accept it or move on.

[Elim]

If we ever do get a parse from SE, do you think it will be embraced or do you think it will create people who make PF's saying "No parses allowed"? Do you think there will be a negative reaction to its presence?

Before anyone counters that players will leave en-masse if a Parse is introduced, do keep in mind that many successful MMO's have had the presence of parses without issue. I don't think a large portion of the playerbase will be affected or will act upon it.

If parsers were suddenly allowed in FF14, I think some DPS would put up a fuss at the start because, as I said, they've been coddled. There would be "I'm going to quit!" and "re-ban parsers!" threads for the first maybe six months. They'd all get use to it eventually(or quit and come back once they realized every other MMO allows them...).

[Elazu]

If we ever do get a parse from SE, do you think it will be embraced or do you think it will create people who make PF's saying "No parses allowed"? Do you think there will be a negative reaction to its presence?

People who do good will welcome parsers with open arms, people who can't be bothered to not be a burden to the party will cry on the forums for a few months.