Parsers and Problems

[Ashkendor]

From all my experiences in end game raids, the correlation between aggro rankings and dps output are very high. When I say aggro rankings, I mean the final aggro rankings. I have not encounter a situation where I was ahead of another player in aggro but still lost in single target dps. Again, aggro ranking is a GOOD INDICATOR of dps output, meaning it gives you a relative perspective on dps output but not an exact perspective.

WHM/AST spamming AoE heals = top DPS, confirmed.

Apparently Quelling Strikes makes ranged DPS bad, too.

[Deviant1]

so you're telling me, a dps ripping aggro from Tank mid fight is not the top dps atm?

I would say yes, considering that the top DPS could have used quelling strikes to mitigate enmity. SMN can also be top DPS without being at the top of the hate list since a portion of their combined damage is from two sources. Not even to mention scenarios whereas there are multiple mobs so the tank doesnt focus on just that one target. Even a good tank can fumble their rotation and lose hate.

With so many reasons that dps can get hate, to think it is exclusive of their dps is ego driven and has very little basis in reality.

Personally, i am all for parsers. Especially if it is from SE, since they can properly track the DOT effects and all the other little things that the external parsers mess up on.

I have to question though for those who are against parsers: Is it that you dont perform your best on purpose, is it a lack of skill or are we not supposed to notice that your wasting our time spirit bonding instead of using the best gear you have???

[KaijinRhada]

Aggro and DPS is just apples to oranges when you use one as a metric for another, definitely not precise enough, ever (plenty of points being brought up as to why). Pulling out my fruit analogy again, I can't use bananas to tell me how ripe my oranges are. I don't use Omen as a replacement for Skada, so why the hell would I do it here?

[ForbiddenMonk]

So you're telling me its absolutely possible to parse at 10 dps as a dps for the entire savage encounter and still be high on aggro

since dps and aggro are apples and oranges right?


PROVE IT

[KaijinRhada]

So you're telling me its absolutely possible to parse at 10 dps as a dps for the entire savage encounter and still be high on aggro

since dps and aggro are apples and oranges right?


PROVE IT

Reading comprehension: Did I ever say or imply what you are claiming? What I am saying is that it's a poor judge of how much DPS is being contributed. You can't use a metric used to track your aggro when you include aggro dumps and focuses as an accurate determination for DPS. Both are fruit, both are still different.

[leonsilverberg]

I think a personal parser is a great idea, but I think the median 80% of players would still put up...well, let's just say, less than mediocre numbers (I'm being pretty generous when I say "mediocre" too, my BLM doing thunder and blizzard 1 should not be out-dps'ing other BLMs...). I think a group parser is extremely important for end game play however, and especially given the current state of Savage design, is really the only way to improve and progress.

tl;dr: I'm all for personal parsers, but group parsers should exist for content where it's necessary to progress.

[Deviant1]

So you're telling me its absolutely possible to parse at 10 dps for the entire encounter and still be high on aggro

Seriously? ok:

1. Hit the mob once then cast flash/medica2 repetitively
2. hit the mob once and have the tank focus on a different mob
3. be a nin and hit the mob once, let the tank get some hate then switch mobs and then use the enmity transfer ability (i dont remember the exact name)

Can it be done, yes. Is it going to happen often, no.


Friendly reminder: Tanks are always at the top of the enmity list and are rarely the top dps.

The important take away is that enmity and DPS amounts are not interlocked together. If a person wants to make an accurate statement, then accurate data is required and we cannot have that without having the fights parsed (either by SE or external). Without data everything is assumed, and will often not be accurate.

If you really want some proof of this, search the forums for smn dps posts when 2.0 was just released. None of the parsers could capture the data right, so everyone thought that the job was broken. Turned out that once the data was corrected, the mentality changed...

[ForbiddenMonk]

"I can't use bananas to tell me how ripe my oranges are"

Reading comprehension: I cant use ___ to measure how ____ are

[Eidolon]

So you're telling me its absolutely possible to parse at 10 dps as a dps for the entire savage encounter and still be high on aggro

since dps and aggro are apples and oranges right?


PROVE IT

See, no one's really saying they're 100% seperate, but they are moreso saying that it's a one-way street.

It's possible to have High DPS and Low Aggro (Depending on what you consider 'low')

It's not possible to have Low DPS and High Aggro, unless you're a healer/tank.

That's exactly, unrestricted, what they are trying to explain. I do agree - if no one is using their Threat Reduction, /and/ you don't have a SMN/MCH to compare against, the aggro is a good way to gauge how much DPS someone did. But if the BLM is out-DPS'ing the Dragoon, uses Quelling Strikes, and the Dragoon never uses Jump? The DRG will naturally have more threat than the BLM (and not all fights can be optimized using Elusive jump for movement, so there's a number of situations where this happens to me.)

[Ronaldus]

You cannot compare agro to DPS. Period. Different classes generate agro at different rates from my experience.

Was skimming over some other posts. Regarding dragoon's elusive jump. If a dragoon is having to use Elusive Jump because the tank lost agro, there are probably some larger issues at hand. Every scenario is different but some of the ones I can think of off hand are: The tank's agro generation is inadequate (yes blame the tank for not holding agro. no excuses, even on openers.), dragoon is attack the wrong target(?), main tank died and the OT hasn't generated agro. Now there are an infinite amount of different scenarios out there in which a DRG could inadvertently get agro but elusive jump isn't necessarily used for that. In fact I see the agro halving part of elusive jump more as a crutch for helping out an undergeared tank in a dungeon. In a raid scenario (especially a static group) it's most useful for positioning quickly to INCREASE DPS. Not reduce emnity.