The Real Problem with Parsers

[CdlC_Elrond]

well, personally im pro parser.

By implementing parsers, se would grant the bad players the chance to get better.
How can someone know that hes bad if he cannot see what other ppl do in the same job & gear. By implementing parsers you wouldnt blame ppl (cuz if they are bad, they get blamed by derps anyway), you allow them to compete with others and get better.

That will make fun to the casual players as well, cuz everyone likes to improve. (hey i got stronger)

Well to get things together: implement parsers and see how the community will get better. If you want to save the ones who dont like it, give them the opportunity to disable themselves beeing parsed. You´ll see that very few ones will disable it cuz thats a quote for themselves: "yes, i am bad"

[AniCelestine]

(Note: I didn't bother reading 66 pages, read the OP and first page so yeah, I might or might not say something everyone else has said the past 65 pages)

Parsers parsers parsers. Everyone complains 'bout parsers and how they should be banned because that's the only way you can tell if a Job specifically designed to be dealing alot of damage is doing a bad job at that thing.

Here's a question for all the people who hates parsers and wants them gone: Do you never want to kick a tank for not knowing how to do their job? Or do you not want to kick a healer that can't keep anyone alive in the party? That's their job's equilevant of doing a bad job.

Sure, in most cases if a damage dealing class is doing less than 500 dps at lvl 60 it doesn't mean you're unable to complete the duty but it's still as annoying for the other people in the group if you're doing a bad job as a dps, as it is annoying for you a if tank or healer is doing a bad job, let's face it, you're not going to be sitting in that one dungeon willingly wiping on that one boss you just can't clear cause your healer can't heal you through it for 90 minutes or the tank keeps losing aggro on the boss that just runs up to the healer and one shots it.


The main reason why we need parsers in this game, is the insane dps checks you have at the end game. You can't just tell a person to "get good" if there's nothing you can reflect your results onto.
Sure, one could get a recording software, start recording and punch the dummy for that 3:30min and then rewatch the video, add up all the dmg done and then calculate the dps done in that fashion, but that requires you to have good enough specs on your PC or bought software(I believe, correct me if I'm wong) in order to record it incase you're still using ps3. Then, you need to spend alot more time on making sure you did all the calculations correctly while re-watching the video, rewinding, pausing, playing, making a time stamp with x amout of dmg done incase you lose track, etc etc.


Tell me, if there was alot easier and less time consuming way to do a certain task than what you'd otherwise have to do to get the same result, would you still want to do the more time consuming and harder way?


There are people who have really wrong mentality 'bout Duty Finder and Parsers and that's the main issue. Duty Finder is a place where you just simply can't expect perfection* and most stuff (ex roulet) you do at DF doesn't require absolute perfection. Just fucking deal with it, or get your static's 8man group to divide into 2 groups that run that ex roulet every day(4dps 2 healers 2 tanks = 2x 2dps 1 healer 1 tank surprised?) to get that daily eso bonus you're so madly after that you absolutely need to kick people that are sub-perfect.

*(Though I've heard that JP people use DF for perfect runs and PF for training, but as far as I know that's not how it works on the English speaking servers).

There was that clever modified version of a existing quote 'bout guns and people.

Parsers don't VTK people. People VTK people.

Best Regards,
Healer top dps on 70% of my daily DR runs, do you see me kicking people? No.

[Craiger]

well, personally im pro parser.

By implementing parsers, se would grant the bad players the chance to get better.
How can someone know that hes bad if he cannot see what other ppl do in the same job & gear. By implementing parsers you wouldnt blame ppl (cuz if they are bad, they get blamed by derps anyway), you allow them to compete with others and get better.

That will make fun to the casual players as well, cuz everyone likes to improve. (hey i got stronger)

Well to get things together: implement parsers and see how the community will get better. If you want to save the ones who dont like it, give them the opportunity to disable themselves beeing parsed. You´ll see that very few ones will disable it cuz thats a quote for themselves: "yes, i am bad"

I fully agree, and posted something similar in this thread, but there was actually a good point brought up in response to it... The players can only see that they're doing bad, if they get players that aren't bad themselves. Even if they do like double their DPS, that doesn't really say much nowadays in dungeons.

I don't know what have happened since 2.X, but 300-400 DPS on a boss fight in a dungeon, is the normal now, 1000+ DPS is like a once in a month discovery (for me at least).

There should be something that tells the player that they need to improve, and if you can see others DPS too, then it should indicate how well the others are doing too.

I really do hope to see more players getting good DPS in dungeons soon. It has nothing to do with clearing them faster (although that is nice too), but easy content like dungeons, is perfect for learning how to play you're job better, and practicing before moving up to harder content. Alex normal is even better for that, but why not train on all content? When I started playing MNK for the first time, I trained hard in dungeons while doing my roulettes, cause training on a dummy won't go far, and just jumping into Savage, is a bad idea...

[Whiteroom]

I fully agree, and posted something similar in this thread, but there was actually a good point brought up in response to it... The players can only see that they're doing bad, if they get players that aren't bad themselves. Even if they do like double their DPS, that doesn't really say much nowadays in dungeons.

I don't know what have happened since 2.X, but 300-400 DPS on a boss fight in a dungeon, is the normal now, 1000+ DPS is like a once in a month discovery (for me at least).

Well the game does force you to run instances many times, so you will see a good cross section. So the counter that it depends on who you get in your run, becomes moot fairly quickly.

The sad part about the numbers you posted is that an ilvl 186 DRG with a 180 weapon can do 600 just spamming the thrust combo and nothing else. No buffs or procs. Just three base actions. That people are in defense of people doing half of that as just fine is a little crazy.

[Tyrius]

I hate people that hate on parser's Ill tell you why I use one

For starters I like to improve my game play, I like to play around with a rotation and see which one nets the best dps. I like to compare and see what works well in s situation my optimal rotation might not work on a certain fight but a different one might do better My parser helps me do this. Also not everyone who uses one is a dick and flames people Alot of us use it TO BETTER OURSELVES

The only time I ever say something about a parse Is to tell some one WOW you did an awesome job you put up some big numbers.

I love to go into a run and at the end see my numbers and say to myself holy shit that was freaking awesome! or go wow I did a little worse that run then last time let me look at the numbers and see what caused that.

THE ONLY TIME I EVER SAY SOMETHING TO SOME ONE IS IF A GROUP IS TRYING SO HARD TO CLEAR SOMETHING AND YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT CONTRIBUTING IN A WAY THAT IS POSITIVE FOR THE GROUP if everyone is above say 300k dps and you are at 99k their is an issue and I dont even say anything bad normally I say something like hey man might wanna pick it up a bit.

I dont feel like parse ruins a game or excludes a person from content it is a Tool to be used to help people, if you get kicked from a group it was the groups decision to do so not the parse or a single person the GROUP

[Alkimi]

The sad part about the numbers you posted is that an ilvl 186 DRG with a 180 weapon can do 600 just spamming the thrust combo and nothing else. No buffs or procs. Just three base actions. That people are in defense of people doing half of that as just fine is a little crazy.

A decently geared blm can also easily hit that just spamming Blizzard 1 over and over. Yet so many are below that trying to play it properly.

[Craiger]

Well the game does force you to run instances many times, so you will see a good cross section. So the counter that it depends on who you get in your run, becomes moot fairly quickly.

The sad part about the numbers you posted is that an ilvl 186 DRG with a 180 weapon can do 600 just spamming the thrust combo and nothing else. No buffs or procs. Just three base actions. That people are in defense of people doing half of that as just fine is a little crazy.

You would think so... But maybe I'm just unlucky or something, because last time I saw someone do 80%+ of their maximum DPS output, was like 2 weeks ago, and before that was another 2 weeks... I'm happy if I see the other DPS doing 800 DPS, even though that amount of DPS in 2.X (relative) wasn't really that good. The DPS getting out-DPSed by the tank isn't too uncommon actually, and that's with tanks that isn't doing amazing themselves (not bad though)

My point is, if I were to determine the average DPS I should be having (MNK), without looking at any other info except the parser, I would put a goal at around 600-700 DPS... Which is half of what my goals should be pretty much.

EDIT: To clarify, I don't expect everyone to do maximum or even near maximum DPS, but you're not gonna improve if you set your goals that low... You should always aim high

[CdlC_Elrond]

The main reason why we need parsers in this game, is the insane dps checks you have at the end game. You can't just tell a person to "get good" if there's nothing you can reflect your results onto.

Point. To beat certain dps checks in endgame, you have to use parsers to improve and manage to do your best dps while doin certain mechanics. So my point is: if se would implement an ingame parser, ppl will get stronger cuz they can see "oh im not that good as i thought." and will train to improve.This will make the whole community much better, we`ll all get smoother dungeon runs, smoother alex normal modes and even more players gettin in savage mode. If Square does not know if or if not would be the best choice, then well let all the players vote, and well for ppl that are strictly against, give them the option to deactivate beeing parsed.

[Tsilyi]

As much as I don't care whether they implement parsers or not, I can tell you from playing other games that DO have them... making them legal is absolutely not going to miraculously raise the level of skill the playerbase has. There will always be multitudes of people who are awful. People who will seek help to do better are already getting advice from skilled players and using parsers themselves. Don't fool yourself into thinking the average player is going to somehow get better just because parsers are suddenly allowed.

[MentheusDreyar]

Snip.

Of course it isn't going to magically make them better no one is arguing against that, only people who care to put in the effort will do so, but it gives everyone the tools to potentially get better. Maybe after they see their numbers they will be motivated to improve, maybe not, but it has far more uses than just for those people too

Ignoring all the a-holes that abuse people regardless of a parser or not:

Best case scenario: We'll see a general increase of player skill and content completion rate and DF actually becomes a reliable way of completing content rather than the cesspool it is now.
Worst Case scenario: We have a tool to assess party performance and police those players that are preventing content from being completed either by giving advice or replacing them or are otherwise trolling parties and completion rate picks up ranging from DF to PF.