The Real Problem with Parsers

[Craiger]

But you end up doing the same dungeons over and over again. A personal parser would let you see how you did and see if you are improving.

Unless they know that they're way behind, they're probably not gonna bother with it... and even if they do, they probably won't change their rotation/general play enough to make a huge difference.

If they see 300 DPS now, and improve to 400, they could think they have mastered their job now or something if they don't have any idea what numbers they should be getting. If they suddenly see that some players are doing 1300 DPS on the same fight, they will instantly know that they're way behind and need to change something to improve.

Some here might think 300 DPS is kind of an extreme case, but I've seen more at 300-400 DPS than people at 800+ DPS.

[Aiselia]

If they see 300 DPS now, and improve to 400, they could think they have mastered their job now

And yet on the flip side, if they don't know what numbers they should be getting and are doing 600 when they could be doing 1300 with their gear but they only get people who do 300-400, they will think they're doing great.

Difference is that if someone's pulling 300-400 when they could be doing 1300 with their gear, it's probably not because they don't know they could do better, but because they don't care.

Terrible when they could do good is more likely a sign of not caring enough to try.
Passable when they could do good is more likely that they're just not optimizing rotation and may care... unless they get terrible players a lot that make them look good.

A party parser is unlikely to help someone doing 300 when their gear allows for 1300.

[Gorlioliolio]

If a persons gear allows for 1300 they probably have some 210 pieces and by that point should know their rotation, if they are doing 300 at that point they are either a) trolling b) being a dick, or c) have never given a crap and expect the whole world owes them everything and we should all carry them.

Should I then be forced to examine them, see their gear is definitely above their dps (but who are we kidding, just being level 60 in 50 gear=more than 500 dps) then watch them for the next couple pulls to see what they are doing, if it's a class I don't have leveled research their rotation and then watch them some more to see what they are doing wrong. At that point be like "heeeeey buddy, so I don't think your doing your rotation right, and umm I think it would be nice for everyone here if you just tried it like this.... k thanks bud, have a great day".

Or would it be nice to be able to kick someone who is i200+ just by looking at the number beside their name saying "this idiot is pulling less than I can on a 50 bard, gg".

Why should anyone be forced to deal with these a-holes? You can kick a tank for having terrible agro, a healer for letting people die, but if I can sit on my hands and auto attack for 2/3rd of what this guy is doing I can't say a god damn word because parsers are bad and peoples feelings are more important than wasting 3-7 peoples time.

Edit: And once again I'm not advocating kicking someone for slightly subpar dps, 600 for a fresh 60 learning their new rotations 800+ for someone being lazy but having some decent gear at 60 don't really bother me, it's the people who are going out of their way to waste peoples time while not being "afk" because they are technically attacking everything.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

Well in duty finder people shouldn't care so much but in party finder dps matters, because for a start you are wasting peoples time if you cant even play your class right.

DF is the polite way of saying fast queues but at least I wont be expected to preform while party finder on savage/extreme and clear party runs its inappropriate to join if you don't know how to play your class effectively and should be blacklisted. Join a learning party if unsure about rotations and stuff then maybe people will offer you advice if not black list and report to others on undesirable trolls.

[MoonlitSilhouette]

Here"s the thing you fail to understand. Casuals doesn't mean bad. I have dozens of casual friends on my server who can both do well in savage and pull 1.1-1.2k+ in dungeons. There is a difference between casual and bad. Learn it

Then they aren't casuals if they're doing Savage

[kensatsu]

The problem is not the parser or the game, but the players.
You may have a player running a dgn, and kick someone because he lack in dps.
You may have a player running a dgn, and say to someone, your damage is low you may play better if you watch some guide of your job.
In many case players want to play the better they can, and are glad to know if he play well or not so well.
in the first case you have a jerk, on the second case not.
Official parser or not you can't fight with the fact : some jerks is considering others players like trash on dgn even queued on DF ,it's happen a lot and it's a shame because a dungeon is for players to get geared and also to get the training you need to play your JOB bettter.
Jerks is part and the problem of the community in general, i don't think the official parser in WOW is the problem, but the players using it in bad way.

[Craiger]

Then they aren't casuals if they're doing Savage

The problem with the word "Casual", is that the meaning of it differs a lot between people...

You say that if you're doing Savage, you're not a casual. Fair enough, but according to many players, casual is just a term used on players that doesn't spend very much time in the game, for various reasons. If you see it that way, it doesn't matter what you do in the game, the amount you play is all that matters. (pretty much)

Being a casual or hardcore player is most often based on how dedicated you are to a game. If you don't play very much every week, but do raiding a couple of times during that week, I would still consider that person casual... cause unless they study the game a ton when they aren't playing (or something like that), then they aren't as dedicated as someone who plays a lot more (whether that's by choice or just being busy, doesn't matter)

The ones that play very little, and aren't even dedicated enough to care about playing decently... well, they're "super casuals"... And IMO, those go into the "bad player" category, because it's not the time they spend on the game that is holding them back, it's just them being ignorant.

EDIT: Playing very little every week is kinda relative to how much there is to do in the game... Currently, most players would be casuals going by what I said, but that's just because there is so little to do right now. When Things like Relics and other more grind stuff comes out, you'll see who the casuals and the more hardcore really are.

[kensatsu]

yeah casual player is someone that not spend a lot of times in games, when hard core players spend a lot of times.
you can be casual player and still wish to be good at the game
you can get a lot of hard core gamer doing different thing on the games:
exemple: a Player dedicated to craft and gathering, pvp, he is leveling all the jobs too, doing the relics,
and maybe not raiding so much, maybe 6 hours of raid by week, he still a hard core gamer.
a other exemple : is a hardcore gamer only doing the raid, because he want to be in the race

[Sida]

I count myself fairly casual player because I don't raid dedicated ly and have no real desire to get in the savage race. Yet I play 40 hours a week (or more) try to level and learn about every class, enjoy of crafting and gathering, have made couple Zetas.. I just refuse to feel the pressure to get to the end, while I enjoy the journey.

[kensatsu]

it don't make you a casual player,
a casual player don't play 40 hours by week.
also if your fc is not dedicated to the raid race, you may just raid few hours by week like a lot of players.
you can be hardcore but dedicated to others thing than the raid.