The Real Problem with Parsers

[Aiselia]

but you need it to quantify that information and prove that they are infact, under performing.

Which you don't need in this case where someone is factually wearing the wrong stat. If "not wearing the right stat" (and apparently missing a ring) isn't enough to prove that someone's going to be underperforming, no amount of parser numbers will prove it to them because they simply won't care.

It's an isolated scenario

And this is an isolated argument. They said that they needed parsers to prove someone who's not wearing the right gear is going to be underperforming. That's just plain wrong. In no stretch of the imagination do you need numbers to prove that having the wrong gear on will cause someone to underperform. That's like saying that you need numbers to prove that someone wearing i90 gear is not going to hit as hard as someone wearing i190. It's just a terrible argument.

but just maybe you know, if the BRD had seen his numbers

And just maybe, you know, if the person had tried to explain why Dex is important instead of a rude "Facepalm" comment and a failed vote kick, the Bard would have been more open to listening.

Also funny enough, he asked what the mind was supposed to, which quite literally, does nothing for bards, not even give mana as they claimed.

And according to the legend of what colours are which, the Bard didn't say that Mind gives MP. It says Blue = PLD.

[RiceisNice]

Which you don't need in this case where someone is factually wearing the wrong stat. If "not wearing the right stat" (and apparently missing a ring) isn't enough to prove that someone's going to be underperforming, no amount of parser numbers will prove it to them because they simply won't care.

Which again, would not apply to situations where the person is willfully ignorant/bad. But even then you have the off chance that players do not know their primary stats (specifically monks and rogues due to the lack of clarification on early DoW body Pieces). And even outside of that, just rotational/gameplay in general. Thats why I even mentioned that this screenshot is a terrible example to prove either side on whether or not having a parser is good.

And this is an isolated argument. They said that they needed parsers to prove someone who's not wearing the right gear is going to be underperforming. That's just plain wrong. In no stretch of the imagination do you need numbers to prove that having the wrong gear on will cause someone to underperform. That's like saying that you need numbers to prove that someone wearing i90 gear is not going to hit as hard as someone wearing i190. It's just a terrible argument.

They're not debating Ilvls though, they're debating stats at the same ilvl (since AV syncs to 49). And it is an isolated scenario/argument, that's why it shouldn't apply to (not) having parsers in general.

And according to the legend of what colours are which, the Bard didn't say that Mind gives MP. It says Blue = PLD.

Which more likely than not, the three had queued together, so the odd one out would be SoL. The matter of fact is, their reasoning is still objectively wrong.

[JackFross]

Calculating your optimal potencies shows you your hypothetical ceiling. If you wanna know how well you're actually applying that knowledge then you need to analyze your combat logs.

Sure. That's correct, to some extent.

However, once you have the base rotation and understand the base mechanics of the class, you've reached the skill floor. In general, someone at the skill floor isn't going to be noticed as being "bad," even with parsers. The skill gap is immense for most classes, and I can only speak for Dragoon on this, but...

If you just do the base rotation of Dragoon with absolutely no buffs (even ignoring GSK), I can still cruise at ~960 dps on a dummy. This compares to my 1350+ resting dps on dummy using buffs and ogcd attacks. If that 1350 translates to 1100-1200 in any given turn of Alexander normal mode, the minimum skill variant I outlined here would likely translate to ~815 dps. Granted, I'm i203, so my stats are quite higher/better than, say, an i180 player, but these numbers should still hold (somewhat) for someone who's been buying Eso gear weekly and has the rest 190. They'll be ~100 or so less, but meh. Same story as below.

No one will call him on his shit. It's low, yeah, but nobody is gonna say "BRO U SUCK" they'll just shrug it off and move on. And that's simply doing mechanics correctly and performing your base rotation while using literally 0 cooldowns for the entire duration. Nothing. No jumps, no Geirskoguls, no Life Surge, not even a Blood for Blood.


Basically, the mathematics I'm talking about isn't related to calculating a hypothetical skill ceiling, it's about calculating the very real skill FLOOR for a class. The base rotation you should be doing to perform the class correctly. So, uh, essentially - you don't need a parser to tell you that you're playing your class according to how the current meta tells you the optimal way to play it is. You'd need one to see yourself IMPROVE beyond the baseline, sure, but to know you're there? Not necessary, imo.

[rappa]

Obviously i didn't need a parser to discover this bard was underperforming. Wrong accesories and missing one actived the alarm.
With a parser, you could show his number against other party members. During that AV run, i was a bard too, i doubled the damage from that bard.

I killed a tons of time the first boss from AV and was the first time, the healer was out of mana. I had to eat 5 fruits with 3 stacks each one. After the kill with LB1, i checked the parser and that bard did 10 dps more than tank, and me 100 dps more. It's a lower difference, but doing a dungeon lvl 49, it's a big difference.

Be prepared, he is lvl 50+ and he is ready for Dusk vigil or other HW dungeons. Will be a pain if he doesn't learn anything from his job.

[Viridiana]

In practice, we can calculate the Full Thrust combo's potency, including our base buffs as Dragoon (Heavy Thrust's +15% damage and Disembowel's 10% Pierce debuff resist drop):

150+200+360+290 = 1000 potency
1000 / 4 = 250 potency per gcd
250 x 1.15 = 287.5 potency per gcd (with Heavy Thrust)
287.5 / 0.9 = 319.44 potency per gcd (with HT+Dis)

And then you get in game and realize that your calculations are off, because 1) potency scales weird and Full Thrust isn't 12x as much damage as Phlebotomize ticks, even without buffs, and 2) that Disembowel should probably be X*1.1, not X/.9. At least, that's what the community's been using.

[hagare]

I am writing this as a plea to SE, and the community.


Do not add parsers of any nature, do not homogenize the game more then it already is. I, like the majority of FF fans play it for the uniqueness of it, the mystery and wonder and of course the lore.

If you add parsers to the game(Or continue to allow things like ACT to function) then you will create a WoW clone which caters to the 1% and leaves the 99% struggling to enjoy the game or see/experience content.


You may increase subs, but you will destroy the community. I don't want to play a "set rotation" or be kicked from groups because my DPS was 50 below the other DPS. I played WoW for 8 years, and ultimatley it was the condescending attitude of people running DPS meters/healing meters that ruined it. It's just not fun.


The game works fine as it is. Please PLEASE keep it this way.

you have to right to play however you like, but the 3/7/23 other people with you also have the right to play how they want.
you have the right to play as an ice mage and refuse to use anything other than ice spells than those other people in your team also has the right to dismiss you.

other people have the right to insult you, look down on you or harass you, but you also have the right to report them, black list them, or vote dismiss them for it.

[DarkmoonVael]

you have to right to play however you like, but the 3/7/23 other people with you also have the right to play how they want.
you have the right to play as an ice mage and refuse to use anything other than ice spells than those other people in your team also has the right to dismiss you.

other people have the right to insult you, look down on you or harass you, but you also have the right to report them, black list them, or vote dismiss them for it.

I like you \o/.


But anyway, with parsers (and here comes a personal opinion) i would like one in game. I dont care if it only tells me how much dps i do, but its a nice tool when used correctly. I would like to improve my performance when possible, and this is a good way to measure it.

[JackFross]

And then you get in game and realize that your calculations are off, because 1) potency scales weird and Full Thrust isn't 12x as much damage as Phlebotomize ticks, even without buffs, and 2) that Disembowel should probably be X*1.1, not X/.9. At least, that's what the community's been using.

I dunno what numbers you're looking at, but the ratio of Full Thrust to Phlebotomize ticks is ~12x in-game. If you're comparing HT+Dis Full Thrust v HT+Dis Phleb, then the difference will be larger, since the Phleb dot ticks aren't piercing damage and thus aren't boosted by Disembowel. Potency scales perfectly linearly. There's RNG, of course, but the ratios are consistent, according to potency amounts. You also still don't need a parser to see these relationships. I sure didn't use one to test it out and figure out that potencies scale linearly with damage. (Since I was playing on PS3 when I did these initial calculations back in 2.0-2.1)

It should be /.9, if the game works the way the tooltip explains. It decreases piercing resistance by 10%, it doesn't increase piercing damage by 10%. These are different statements. Just because other people do it one way doesn't necessarily make it correct.

For the record:
x1.1 = x11/10
/0.9 = x10/9

Those numbers are different by 1/90. Doesn't really make much difference, except that dividing by the 0.9 is more accurate, assuming the game works the way it states in the tooltip.


This is getting a bit off-topic. The point still stands I didn't use or need a parser to calculate the numbers that give you an optimal rotation for Dragoon and Paladin. I haven't bothered looking into other classes yet, since those are my only two 60s, so no other ones matter to me at the moment. You don't need a parser to discover the skill floor for your class. You do need one to see how you're progressing toward the skill ceiling. It's really really obvious if a player isn't at the skill floor yet for Dragoon, at least to my eyes and ears. I've been playing the class since 2.0 beta phase 4. I know the sound effects and animations for all the pre-heavensward skills like the back of my hand. If someone isn't reaching that baseline plateau it is *painfully* obvious to me.

And if someone is at or above the skill floor, there's no real reason to be a dick to them, because at least they're playing "properly." If they're below, that's cause for you to offer constructive criticism and back down if they get offended.

The problem isn't parsers being illegal, it's players being too pigheaded to admit that they're doing something wrong. Hell, I've even had players respond with "So? We still cleared." after I tried to offer advice on how they could play Dragoon better because they were dealing about 50% of their potential. Maybe that would be fixed if they could see their numbers. Who knows?

[Viridiana]

Potency scales perfectly linearly.

Hahahahahaha...No. No it doesn't. Except when it does, sometimes. But usually it doesn't.

For the record:
x1.1 = x11/10
/0.9 = x10/9

Those numbers are different by 1/90. Doesn't really make much difference, except that dividing by the 0.9 is more accurate, assuming the game works the way it states in the tooltip.

And the former is what all the guides go with, and is probably more accurate. And a difference of 1/90 will start giving you wrong numbers as soon as your damage exceeds 90 points, which was forever ago. Once you're up past 900 damage abilities, you're looking at 10 points off from expected value.

[rappa]

Without parser and zero clue how dps are doing, the game gonna be a cesspool where normal content will be nerfed.

A lot of good and average players are avoiding DF. Enough threads about "ice mages", "Heavy Shot bards", "not positional mnk/drg/ninjas",... I enjoyed to use DF, but wipe for low dps, zero performance and apathic players left me a bitter taste. Be lvl 50+ and zero knowledge about your job is disheartening

And no, nobody gonna kick one guy for 50 dps less. Doing 300, 400, 500 dps less yes. It's a mmo, where you play together others persons, you have to acommodate your playstyle or join with friends. All players want bosses and content killed. Underperforming and laziness with unknown is not allowed.