The Real Problem with Parsers

[RiceisNice]

And this is besides the fact that you're complaining about underperforming in Aurum Vale? Really? That's why this game DOESN'T need parsers. If you're complaining about how poorly someone's parsing in something like Aurum Vale, you're the exact type of person that should not be allowed to parse.

He wasn't complaining about how poorly they were parsing nor did he even mention low damage output, but the fact that they were completely off the radar on what they should be doing (having the wrong stats). All that screenshot showed was that he couldn't even voice that because in the end, he wounded up getting vote dismissed.

[Aiselia]

He wasn't complaining about how poorly they were parsing nor did he even mention low damage output

He says that the game needs parsers because someone was wearing Mind accessories on a Bard. When asked what a parser has to do with that, he said "underperforming". The example was taking place in Aurum Vale.

So yes, the complaint is underperforming in Aurum Vale.

Whether he said it in chat is irrelevant, and parsers would have been entirely irrelevant and not solved anything in that situation because if they didn't figure out in 50ish levels that Dex is for Bards and Mind is not useful for Bards, showing them DPS numbers isn't going to do a thing.

Especially if the other DPS isn't a similarly-geared-except-wearing-Dex Bard so that there's something to compare to.

But, I mean, looking at the chat, "Motion for dismissal rejected" coming right before "Facepalm" kind of suggests that the person tried to kick the Bard for wearing Mind accessories, it failed, and they got kicked in return. Maybe that's wrong, but that chat log makes it pretty clear they weren't just innocently, kindly bringing up that Bards should use Dex.

[RiceisNice]

...

You don't need a parser to tell someone is under performing, but you need it to quantify that information and prove that they are infact, under performing. Regardless of if there was a parser there or not, I don't think the outcome would've changed with that party. It's an isolated scenario, but just maybe you know, if the BRD had seen his numbers compared to say...other bards (which was actually the case for that party in the screenshot), then if he had the mind to improve then maybe he'd rethink the use of such accessories, especially when he isn't even using the extra mana. It's a terrible example that really doesn't prove one way or another, because even for something like AV, I'd rather not have to put up with people who either refuse to learn the proper stats for their class or deliberately play poorly.

Also funny enough, he asked what the mind was supposed to, which quite literally, does nothing for bards, not even give mana as they claimed.

[OPneedNerfs]

You don't need a parser to tell someone is under performing, but you need it to quantify that information and prove that they are infact, under performing. Regardless of if there was a parser there or not, I don't think the outcome would've changed with that party. It's an isolated scenario, but just maybe you know, if the BRD had seen his numbers compared to say...other bards (which was actually the case for that party in the screenshot), then if he had the mind to improve then maybe he'd rethink the use of such accessories, especially when he isn't even using the extra mana. It's a terrible example that really doesn't prove one way or another, because even for something like AV, I'd rather not have to put up with people who either refuse to learn the proper stats for their class or deliberately play poorly.

Also funny enough, he asked what the mind was supposed to, which quite literally, does nothing for bards, not even give mana as they claimed.

Well he definitely had the MIND to improve.

I'll see myself out...

[Aiselia]

but you need it to quantify that information and prove that they are infact, under performing.

Which you don't need in this case where someone is factually wearing the wrong stat. If "not wearing the right stat" (and apparently missing a ring) isn't enough to prove that someone's going to be underperforming, no amount of parser numbers will prove it to them because they simply won't care.

It's an isolated scenario

And this is an isolated argument. They said that they needed parsers to prove someone who's not wearing the right gear is going to be underperforming. That's just plain wrong. In no stretch of the imagination do you need numbers to prove that having the wrong gear on will cause someone to underperform. That's like saying that you need numbers to prove that someone wearing i90 gear is not going to hit as hard as someone wearing i190. It's just a terrible argument.

but just maybe you know, if the BRD had seen his numbers

And just maybe, you know, if the person had tried to explain why Dex is important instead of a rude "Facepalm" comment and a failed vote kick, the Bard would have been more open to listening.

Also funny enough, he asked what the mind was supposed to, which quite literally, does nothing for bards, not even give mana as they claimed.

And according to the legend of what colours are which, the Bard didn't say that Mind gives MP. It says Blue = PLD.

[RiceisNice]

Which you don't need in this case where someone is factually wearing the wrong stat. If "not wearing the right stat" (and apparently missing a ring) isn't enough to prove that someone's going to be underperforming, no amount of parser numbers will prove it to them because they simply won't care.

Which again, would not apply to situations where the person is willfully ignorant/bad. But even then you have the off chance that players do not know their primary stats (specifically monks and rogues due to the lack of clarification on early DoW body Pieces). And even outside of that, just rotational/gameplay in general. Thats why I even mentioned that this screenshot is a terrible example to prove either side on whether or not having a parser is good.

And this is an isolated argument. They said that they needed parsers to prove someone who's not wearing the right gear is going to be underperforming. That's just plain wrong. In no stretch of the imagination do you need numbers to prove that having the wrong gear on will cause someone to underperform. That's like saying that you need numbers to prove that someone wearing i90 gear is not going to hit as hard as someone wearing i190. It's just a terrible argument.

They're not debating Ilvls though, they're debating stats at the same ilvl (since AV syncs to 49). And it is an isolated scenario/argument, that's why it shouldn't apply to (not) having parsers in general.

And according to the legend of what colours are which, the Bard didn't say that Mind gives MP. It says Blue = PLD.

Which more likely than not, the three had queued together, so the odd one out would be SoL. The matter of fact is, their reasoning is still objectively wrong.

[rappa]

Obviously i didn't need a parser to discover this bard was underperforming. Wrong accesories and missing one actived the alarm.
With a parser, you could show his number against other party members. During that AV run, i was a bard too, i doubled the damage from that bard.

I killed a tons of time the first boss from AV and was the first time, the healer was out of mana. I had to eat 5 fruits with 3 stacks each one. After the kill with LB1, i checked the parser and that bard did 10 dps more than tank, and me 100 dps more. It's a lower difference, but doing a dungeon lvl 49, it's a big difference.

Be prepared, he is lvl 50+ and he is ready for Dusk vigil or other HW dungeons. Will be a pain if he doesn't learn anything from his job.