The Real Problem with Parsers

[ForbiddenMonk]

If no parsers are allowed, how are we able to see the pro groups like this from the DF?

This is from an A4 run I just did. (NIN died in quarantine so I was expecting low dps from him at the end of the fight.)

This is the reason why parsers should exist. Parsing 289.27 at ilvl170+ is NOT ACCEPTABLE, and if it wasnt for the mnk (who has a parser, so he can git gud), this group would see enrage all day.

[RiceisNice]

This is the reason why parsers should exist. Parsing 289.27 at ilvl170+ is NOT ACCEPTABLE, and if it wasnt for the mnk (who has a parser, so he can git gud), this group would see enrage all day.

The Ninja died in quarantine, so he was out o commission the entire fight. The warrior on the other hand, that's less than auto attacks and a dps that was potentially dead for the entire fight and explains why the ninja died in quarantine.

[ForbiddenMonk]

Didnt see that death in quarantine part. Even better, by analyzing the parse, you were able to determine that it was the War's fault for the Ninjas death, rather than the nin's dps. Boom. Parser helped

[Sida]

How about a middle ground, between personal parsers and group ones. Since the DF interface already differentiates between pre-made party and random one, I'd suggest it'd be implemented so that you only see the real time parse for the whole party in pre-made party. That way those who want to better themselves and/or help FC mates can do runs for that purpose. Or any sort of raid statics would see whole group performance. However, when being in random DF one would only see their personal parse real time, and only exiting the dungeon would be shown the averages of other party members. That way they could still compare themselves to the others for learning purpose but at that point there'd be no real issue about kicking/harassing due parse since the party has fizzled.

[Arkenne]

I wont say the parse number is much of a viability, but once the fight ends I tend to look at those odd numbers with more detail...
Like opening their skill usage... I've seen horrible things...

NINs using no DoTs in Alex runs...
BRDs using Windbite 134 times while Heavy Shot was used once in an A3 run...
MNKs hitting no positionals...

Yes the parser number might be too big a thing to look at, but if you take some time to analize their fight... some things really get... well you might get eye cancer if you are lucky.


I've also been on the other side of the coin tho, people judging others for the wipe based on parsing numbers... like this one WAR which after wipe was all "oh WAR parsing higher than the DPS how sad" in an A2 run where he didn't notice that the DPS were dying at mobs he was supposed to be tanking and one of those dead-and-res DPSes jumped on the gobbie so of course their DPS was going to drop...

[Kabooa]

This is still going.

As long as hard enrages exist based on killing something before a time limit expires, you need the ability to objectively look at the numbers you're putting out. This isn't up for debate. The potency system is certainly a decent way to 'eyeball' something via potency/gcd, but you can have no way of knowing for certain that ABC > BCA > CAB without the data.

All that parsing / meters do is take that data and put it in an easy to read format of Damage Dealt / Time in Combat.

You want it as a personal parser? Fine, go for it.
You want it as a public opt-in parser? Fine, go for it.
You want it a training dummy that'll give you a report after you leave combat with it? Fine, go for it.

But it needs to exist within the game because console players cannot access third party Parsers without someone else's aid. When the tool is that vital, not having it openly available to the player within the game itself is inexcusable.

[Erim-Nelhah]

How about a middle ground, between personal parsers and group ones. Since the DF interface already differentiates between pre-made party and random one

The interface does, but I don't think the instance server differentiates at all. Basically, based on what I've seen when entering an instance with a full party, when you queue up in DF, your current party gets sent to the matchmaking system to fill any open slots (even if you don't have any). Once your party is full, the matchmaking system then queues everyone in the party into the instance queue as a group, and the group is then sent to the instance. Once in the instance, the instance server puts everyone into a new "instance" party with a random leader (you can verify this by entering with a full party a few times and watching who becomes leader once you're in the instance). As far as I can tell, the instance server is never told whether you're a preformed group or not.

I'd suggest it'd be implemented so that you only see the real time parse for the whole party in pre-made party. That way those who want to better themselves and/or help FC mates can do runs for that purpose. Or any sort of raid statics would see whole group performance. However, when being in random DF one would only see their personal parse real time, and only exiting the dungeon would be shown the averages of other party members. That way they could still compare themselves to the others for learning purpose but at that point there'd be no real issue about kicking/harassing due parse since the party has fizzled.

With the above in mind, this may not be feasible to implement. The alternative of an opt-in party parse is better in almost all cases anyway, since it allows someone in a DF pug that's wiping to enrages to request everyone's parse so that if it's a single weak player they can be helped to improve or, if necessary, removed from the group (and an otherwise good group not be forced to abandon).

--Erim Nelhah

[Hinalover]

First of all I am part of the "A FORM of Parser" side of the argument. Meaning I approve parser use for personal/FC usage, but not so much of "this is your dps in a random 4-man and should be kicked" side of things.

Parsers are good at evaluating who is under-performing, either intentional, or unintentional. But it could be used for good. Such as figuring out mechanics that you just wiped to and are unsure as to what happened. Or you see another player doing more dps than you are with the same job/gear. Maybe they adjusted their rotation just a bit to eek out a bit more dps. It could also help with who was out of position by using a certain site's combat replay feature.

Do people Fear Monger parses saying X job is under performing....yes unfortunately. But they sometimes forget that people can abuse parses. Look at Summoners abusing the parsing meters on Faust. They may show as being high on the dps meters but they are also intentionally cleaving onto the adds.

[Butcherboy]

Weren't yoshi mention something like a dummy giving u parse number being implemented?

[GodIsALoli]

The easiest way to circumvent the DF problem of people getting kicked from the official parser would be to only show the breakdown of the parse results after a dungeon/raid is cleared. Simple. People can simply leave at the end before they harassed for their extremely sub-par dps (E.g. 700 and below dps at i190).

This wouldn't solve the initial problems of people getting kicked from DF by people using the unofficial parsers still. The way to solve this problem? As Yoshida once said, "Git Gud".