The Real Problem with Parsers

[Sleigh]

Okay, and here's what I'm trying to get at. I'm not saying it's not useful to have the information at all. I just do not understand why it's inherently more useful at the time of, when you won't really be able to do much of anything about it until after the wipe. If you can get a breakdown of the fight after you've wiped, getting the same information as you would have during the fight, and now have the time to actually look at the data and talk to whoever it was that was slacking and make suggestions, why would it matter much if you saw it during the fight or after?

If your DRG is 200 DPS lower than they should be, which, for argument's sake, is definitely going to lead to a wipe because it's just too low, why does it matter whether you see that before you wipe or after? How often could you actually save a wipe by pointing out that the DRG is too low and they manage to pick up and make up for what they lost when you've already spent X amount of time being too low, as compared to you having to go another try but this time talking to the DRG beforehand?

Mainly because sometimes total DPS isn't as important as what someone does in a particular phase or up to a particular spot, when learning. It's good to have a timeline as you see it, basically; the end result number isn't always one you can analyze and get some info out of, especially if someone dies or does a mechanic wrong which would destroy your results when otherwise you could get some info out of them during the fact.

Yeah you typically do just look at the information after the fact for tank/heal deaths. Main thing I was trying to say there was the group should have that info all the time, not privately attached to individuals or otherwise unavailable.

[Aiselia]

I gave you the objective benefits back at page 47 and 49

You gave objective benefits of seeing the information, which I've not disagreed that seeing the information can be important in the right situations. You did not give objective benefits of forcing the information to be public over being optional to be public, particularly for content where DPS doesn't make a difference outside of saving a few minutes.

This again.

Hey, I asked you a question about you making things up back on page 50. Could you answer it, please? I'm honestly curious.

Shortcut to question

Mainly because sometimes total DPS isn't as important as what someone does in a particular phase or up to a particular spot, when learning. It's good to have a timeline as you see it, basically; the end result number isn't always one you can analyze and get some info out of, especially if someone dies or does a mechanic wrong which would destroy your results when otherwise you could get some info out of them during the fact.

Okay, so it's basically just so you know where a specific problem may happen, for example, if they strangely popped a CD just before a phase where they wouldn't be able to really use it to its full extent (for example, boss goes invulnerable and they're only 5 sec into their cooldowns)?

But, I mean, if we assume that a forced-party parser is going to show you in-depth information into their CD usage or when/where they died, couldn't an end-result parser also show a timeline? Like, select a player, then it opens up a window that shows a more in-depth information timeline, while the standard UI view of the parser would be limited to more limited information.

Alternatively, what if the optional part was only who it shows to, but still would show real-time data if you selected to make it public? In which case, literally the only difference would be that instead of the party being forced to be able to see it even in content where it largely doesn't matter, one can choose whether or not theirs shows up on someone else's sheet. When doing savage content, you could still set rules to have it set to public for the run.

[Clarkamite]

Okay, so it's basically just so you know where a specific problem may happen, for example, if they strangely popped a CD just before a phase where they wouldn't be able to really use it to its full extent (for example, boss goes invulnerable and they're only 5 sec into their cooldowns)?

I suppose that would be a benefit but I believe Sleigh was more or less implying that the parser would be able to show you more accurately specific points in time where your numbers dip and why. I stated this like 30 pages ago or something along those lines how having a parser available to me at all times would allow me to really get a feel for certain phases and where I stand. I suppose if a parse could be designed such that it would show me a timeline, as you called it, that might be worthwhile but even if that was possible I would still much rather have access to it in real time.

Seeing a graph or a timeline of my numbers and cooldown usage after a wipe or a clear doesn't really carry the same weight as in real time. In real time I can start to notice a trend and immediately fix it. After a wipe I can only see that there was an issue and can only hope to rectify in the future.

Interesting how I leave this thread every couple of days only to see it grow and expand to new arguments. Last time I was checking this thread it seemed like the argument was parsing was bad because of the animosity it could spread. Now it seems as though the argument has shifted from that to, why do you need to see your numbers right away?

Not saying anything other than I'm noticing a trend. The longer this conversation goes on, the more it seems to be leaning towards the side of adding in an official parsing tool for the game. Either the people devoutly against parsing aren't as strong in their convictions enough to continue to have a discussion on the matter or they're changing their stance.

[Elazu]

Hey, I asked you a question about you making things up back on page 50. Could you answer it, please? I'm honestly curious.

Hey, had you on ignore since the first post you posted! Lucky you I actually checked this one!

'Elitist' on this forum is generally used as a synonym for 'someone who is capable'. And the 'I play for fun' excuse always comes up when people are being called out for bad play, as if being good at the game is not fun.

Seems like you're ignoring the stuff the person on page 50 posted just to argue for the sake of arguing with someone who is pro-parsers (as always). It's easily interpretable the way I did (looks like I'm not the only one either!).