The Real Problem with Parsers

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Right, but does it make a huge difference if you see during the fight that the DRG is doing 200 less than other DRGs or after the fight that the DRG DID 200 less DPS than other DRGs, given that you can't just pull a Zack Morris time-out while you explain the rotation? Either way, you're going to have to wait until after the fight to go over it with the DRG, so if you still get the same breakdown in both occasions, does it matter when you get the information?

Or look at it the other way around; you use the tool to train yourself so others don't have to wait "zack morris" timeouts for you.

You're only looking at the negative, there's not a single positive coming out of you. You're not even "pro-parser" any more as you claim you were. You're simply a living contradiction right now.

[Aiselia]

Or look at it the other way around; you use the tool to train yourself

Why does this require the party being able to see your parser during a fight rather than you being able to see it? I don't need to know how much damage the DRG is doing to know how much damage I'm doing as a BRD. In fact, how much damage the DRG is doing is entirely irrelevant to how much damage I'm doing as a BRD because they have two different expectations for damage.

You're only looking at the negative

Not my fault if you can't come up with objective benefits.

Seeing when a DPS does less, in real time, is valuable.

Yes, I already know that's your position. I asked why, not for you to restate your position.

Seeing what the team did at the precise moment of wiping when trying a new strat is valuable.

And why does this require you to be able to see the parse during the fight when the fight's already over? Maybe if you weren't staring at your parser and paying more attention to the strat, you wouldn't have wiped.

For reference what are you arguing you want out of a parser? Are you saying you don't want the team to see what everyone can do until after the fight? Are you saying you want it all to be personal so that the team is unable to see what numbers a person did unless he so wishes to share with us?

Pretty sure I've made it clear already what I think is the best middle ground between a useful tool for self-improvement while avoiding abuse potential.

But, I guess I'll say it... again...

Personal parsers by default with optional sharing. You can always see yours, but can't see others' information unless they manually choose to share it with you.

If you're making a pre-made, you can make it a rule to share and if people aren't okay with that, then you don't go in with them. If you're in DF doing raid content for some reason, people get to choose whether they share and if it becomes relevant (wiping due to DPS checks), you can ask people to share to see what happened and if everyones' DPS is close and you just need a small push or someone's really not trying. If you're in DF doing roulettes or normal dungeons, you don't really need to see the information because there's not many strict DPS checks in roulettes.

[Sleigh]

Why does this require the party being able to see your parser during a fight rather than you being able to see it? I don't need to know how much damage the DRG is doing to know how much damage I'm doing as a BRD. In fact, how much damage the DRG is doing is entirely irrelevant to how much damage I'm doing as a BRD because they have two different expectations for damage.

Not my fault if you can't come up with objective benefits.

Yes, I already know that's your position. I asked why, not for you to restate your position.

And why does this require you to be able to see the parse during the fight when the fight's already over? Maybe if you weren't staring at your parser and paying more attention to the strat, you wouldn't have wiped.


Pretty sure I've made it clear already what I think is the best middle ground between a useful tool for self-improvement while avoiding abuse potential.

But, I guess I'll say it... again...

Personal parsers by default with optional sharing. You can always see yours, but can't see others' information unless they manually choose to share it with you.

If you're making a pre-made, you can make it a rule to share and if people aren't okay with that, then you don't go in with them. If you're in DF doing raid content for some reason, people get to choose whether they share and if it becomes relevant (wiping due to DPS checks), you can ask people to share to see what happened and if everyones' DPS is close and you just need a small push or someone's really not trying. If you're in DF doing roulettes or normal dungeons, you don't really need to see the information because there's not many strict DPS checks in roulettes.

FFXIV raiding is a series of DPS checks. Yes, every single raid at its core is a DPS check in FFXIV with interspersed mechanics, either due to an enrage or things much more specific/tangible per a part of the fight. A1 and A2 are mostly extremely easy enrages, though not easy enough - players to this day still wipe on them.

A3S, there are two very specific DPS checks, arguably more depending on overall gear/skill but there are two very big DPS checks, Hand of Pain and when a Limb grabs your healers. When learning Hand of Pain in i190, we had to push out quite a bit of DPS, we HAD to look at our parsers, at the damage incoming tab, and see who the heck was slacking, what CDs we could throttle from X point without being a risk to overall enrage, see how much damage a class could do in the 20s the Hand was active. Heck, when battling the enrage we had to look at what a class is doing at X point because we could know who was slacking - that enrage didn't come for free in near i190. That enrage still doesn't come for free for most groups in i200.

Same with A4S except the DPS checks are even more sensitive overall when it comes to push timing. Someone slacking? You bet we rode them until we could clear, like any good group will do, because we don't want slackers wasting all of our time after a few hundred pulls. The other night on A4S we enraged a bit earlier than we normally have allowance for and I got called out for being 100 DPS lower than I should have, and I sucked it up and realized what I did at a certain point was simply no good. I used that info to get better.

Not to mention countless times we've wiped and looked into the healing/tanking side of things and found out what wiped us, who was slacking with CDs, and how to fix that with new CD timelines or an altered strat.

It seems like you're pro parser (I guess?), but you believe that info shouldn't be given to others unless they want it. Sorry, can't get behind that, DPS is too big a deal in FFXIV. If you suck as a DPS, much like sucking at surviving as a tank or healing as a healer, tough cookie, everyone should know who to blame when you wipe because maybe for once you'll do some research and not get carried, or get laughed out of a group for being unwilling to improve.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Not my fault if you can't come up with objective benefits.

I gave you the objective benefits back at page 47 and 49 and discussed it with you on page 48 in detail about the post on page 47 in particular. Your only source of "defense" was your "anti-jerk stance", which you came with "personal parsers" which I elaborated that personal parsers would be far more jerk-prone than public parsers on page 48 as well.

I gave you objective benefits: Beneficial for the majority of a group who have a common goal. Your only reasoning so far that's against this kind of benefit are "people are jerks". I reacted to you that your kind of thinking would cater to the jerks you're so "anti-jerk" about, making entire communities bow down to those who you supposedly despise or even fear so much.