The Real Problem with Parsers

[Aiselia]

The thing that many are forgetting is that parsers are already widely in use.

The thing that many who bring that up are forgetting is that it doesn't negate their policy of not bringing up DPS numbers, which seems to be one of the two biggest reasons for people wanting parsers put in, alongside fairness for console players. SE aren't pretending people don't use them. They know full well. If they actually wanted to stop people from using them, there'd be a heck of a lot of banned accounts from people who've posted their parses here.

I mean, really, people can stop bringing up that parsers already exist. Everyone knows. It's just irrelevant to the argument. It doesn't change that you're not allowed to bring it up to someone in-game, which seems to be what people want changed more than they really want the actual parser added in.

I mean, I've never seen any reports of people being kicked for not eating HQ DPS food and using HQ Draco pots in DF.

You're not a GM though, so you wouldn't see the reports. :P

How do you know they don't happen?

Such a bad, bad statement, your head is a little too far in the sand here.

I said holds back, not stops. I do hope you weren't suggesting I was saying nobody is a jerk based on DPS now.

Groups without parsers will not know why they are failing

At this point, I can only assume you've missed my repeated, and I do mean repeated, statements saying that I'm completely fine with parsers as long as they don't create extra jerks and that I'm all for a personal parser for people to see their own DPS to improve because that's the safest middle ground for SE to let people get their numbers to see if they have room for improvement without risking extra jerks calling people out on their DPS. I assume that because you seem to be trying to convince me of the exact benefits of a parser that I've already said I know about and think would be great to have.

But then again I've come to the conclusion many pages back that you are just arguing for the sake of it.

And I assume that you skipped actually reading most of it because you chose to come to an incorrect conclusion.

Although, I mean, pro-tip: Everyone here is arguing for the sake of it. SE isn't honestly going to take any action based on my argument with Viridiana in either direction. I highly doubt anybody who can actually make the decision is even reading this. If SE would consider anything important from this thread, it's going to be the number of people who can't even talk about parsers without resorting to personal attacks so they can't really be expected to use them to tell someone their DPS is low without resorting to personal attacks.

Here, I'll repeat it again just for you because you clearly missed it by trying to extol the virtues of a parser to me:

I've also said that I have zero problems with personal parsers to be allowed to see one's own output so they can improve if they care, and that that would be a safe middle ground for SE to implement because they can still maintain their current policy of not bringing up others' specific DPS because they shouldn't be able to see someone else's with a personal parser.

And further:

I also put forth the idea in another thread that they'd be personal parsers, period, but you could have a "Share to:" button to share with specific people and "Share to Party" button which shares to your current party. That way, you've got more control over who actually sees it and if wipes happen which are DPS check wipes rather than simply mechanic wipes, you could either have a designated person be the one to share things to or just simply share to the party. And, I mean, if you fail a DPS check and 3 DPS share theirs and they're all fine and the last refuses, you could probably guess where the problem lies, and not only that, but you know that if the person refuses to share it when everyone else is shown to be good and the assumption is that it's because the person is embarrassed by it, it's likely the person is obstinately refusing to improve, which means they're not likely to accept help. If someone shares it and it's low but is willing to accept tips on rotations, then they can be helped. It makes it that much simpler to figure out who's low because they just need help and who's low because they outright refuse to think they need to get better.

So really, if anyone's arguing for the sake of arguing, it's the people who obstinately just put forth arguments like "Jerks will be jerks, gimme parser" or "Getting kicked builds character, git gud, gimme parser". I, on the other hand, have actually put some effort into considering ways parsers could be added for the sake of everybody without stepping on peoples' toes.

[Viridiana]

You're not a GM though, so you wouldn't see the reports. :P

How do you know they don't happen?

Oh, something that bad would totally have been brought up somewhere outside the game. Come on.

[Aiselia]

Oh, something that bad would totally have been brought up somewhere outside the game. Come on.

Oh yeah, well, there was this one group who I was with and they were like "Oh man noob, you totally should have been eating HQ Tailor-Made Eel Pie instead of your noobish HQ Lalafell Pot Pie" and then kicked me.

So there. >.>

[Kona_Nightwind]

Oh yeah, well, there was this one group who I was with and they were like "Oh man noob, you totally should have been eating HQ Tailor-Made Eel Pie instead of your noobish HQ Lalafell Pot Pie" and then kicked me.

So there. >.>

This one time I was kicked for being too leet, players said my greatness was to big of a distraction for them.

[Aiselia]

This one time I was kicked for being too leet, players said my greatness was to big of a distraction for them.

"Excuse me, but your DPS is too many digits. Could you maybe knock one off? Thanks."

um, can you even see what food someone has eaten? Doesn't it just show you the "well fed" effect?

Please, anyone who's truly great at the game has already memorized both the stats on every food and how it appears during the animation where you're eating it.

[Malevicton]

This one time I was kicked for being too leet, players said my greatness was to big of a distraction for them.

I got kicked once for speaking Spanish, though tbf my Spanish is terrible.

So yeah, @Aiselia being kicked once for something (which people could also just be making up, this is the internet after all) isn't gonna convince people of anything.

[Aiselia]

So yeah, @Aiselia being kicked once for something (which people could also just be making up, this is the internet after all) isn't gonna convince people of anything.

Are you accusing me of falsifying my testimony about being kicked over not having been willing to spend the money on HQ Tailor-Made Eel Pies because I don't think the minor increase in DPS was worth it in Cutter's Cry?

I take that as an affront, suh, and demand satisfaction.

[Samsta]

Oh yeah, well, there was this one group who I was with and they were like "Oh man noob, you totally should have been eating HQ Tailor-Made Eel Pie instead of your noobish HQ Lalafell Pot Pie" and then kicked me.

So there. >.>

um, can you even see what food someone has eaten? Doesn't it just show you the "well fed" effect?

[Almalexia]

Class and job quests could stand to be more rigorous in teaching game mechanics to players.

eg. PGL quests teach you how to GL, but it doesn't teach you how to use positionals. The difference between a properly and improperly positioned Boot/True/Snap, the very first combo, is around 35% damage--that's more than a "difference in playstyles," as the GMs would say.

You also face either waves of enemies--again, silly for PGL, whose real power comes from flanking--or a gimmicky encounter that is divorced from the class' expertise.

eg. You learn Touch of Death at lv.15, but only after completing the quest. Why not receive ToD at the beginning of the quest, and let the quest present a scenario for you to use it effectively? Or more recently: why not introduce Form Shift at the beginning of the lv.52 quest, and present you with an instanced encounter where you must preserve GL through a period of non-combat?

The game needs to confront the player about their performance before the community does. As it is now, the game dumps the tools at the feet of the player and leaves them to their own devices. It's strange, because this philosophy is at odds with Yoshida's commitment to accessibility for new players, and these early levels are when new players are most receptive to the game's concepts and mechanics.

A parser only tells us that something is broken. The fix isn't the parser, and the burden is on the devs - not the community - to repair what's broken.

[ecastle2]

Oh yeah, well, there was this one group who I was with and they were like "Oh man noob, you totally should have been eating HQ Tailor-Made Eel Pie instead of your noobish HQ Lalafell Pot Pie" and then kicked me.

So there. >.>

I'm surprised no one said anything to this but I'm going to call BS here. Lalafell Pot Pie isn't a food in game you just made that up. Also Tailor-Made Eel Pie isn't meant to be eaten it's a turn-in for the Zodiac portion of the relic quest. If you ate it you wouldn't get any stats from it.