The Real Problem with Parsers

[Gumbercules]

he (yoshi-p) hinted at the "in game" parser being pretty much "personal". its going to be a target dummy that records your DPS pretty much. It is there for training purposes, and as such is a tool to help you improve. (specially nice for console players imo)

As some have pointed out, the parser is just a tool ... it can just be bad when the "parser" is also a tool :P

[ShanaShirayuki]

So tell me again how I'm being an idiot for saying things I've never said. Because if you actually pay attention, if people bothered to take my advice and STOP outright stating that they'll completely be the elitists that SE doesn't want them to be, there MIGHT be a better chance at getting parsers added because they would stop proving SE right.

Thing is these people you mention would be 'elitists' with or without one. Adding in an official parser would wake some up to how they're holding back the other 3 or 7 players also paying for a sub. Or this game can end up like WoW with that video someone posted of content being so watered down and easily accessed that apathy towards endgame communities and caring to do one's best was rampant.

[SlyRoyale]

Or people like you could stop coming into these threads with fear-mongering nonsense, (by claiming suddenly more "good players" would become much more aggressive), to cause unneeded dispute over a tool that would be valuable in helping DPS players improve ten-fold. Then we could have a thread full of plenty of positive support for parsers. That would be much more effective at getting them in-game.

This.

Before I knew about the existence of parsers, I was unaware of how poorly I performed in the majority of content. After finding out what my numbers were, I asked others if they were good. They said they weren't and I needed to step my game up since I was doing raid content (SCoB when it was relevant, to be exact). After looking around for guides and tips, I saw a dramatic increase in my DPS and the parsers reflected that.

Having a detailed measurement of my DPS and asking for counsel from the community not only served to show me where I was, but offered the information and wake-up call I needed as a DPS. It pushed me to become a better player and I am thankful for it. Without being privy to this information, I probably would have continued to be ignorant of how shoddily I performed back in the day. Now that I have the information, all that remains is getting a parser so I don't have to ask my PC friends to open theirs up just to find out if I'm staying on track or not.

It's amazing how such information can be so beneficial to a player and offer incentive to become better, especially for those who constantly seek improvement or ways to not only increase their numbers but aim for faster clear times. If a parser can offer such benefits, especially when SE is making content that has DPS checks, it would be more of a boon for everyone instead of a bane being abused by jerks.

[ajx]

The real problem with parsers is a very accurate title for this thread.

[Isala]

I don't get it. A bad tank can see that they're a bad tank when they lose aggro and die. A bad healer can see that they're a bad healer when parties start dying from unavoidable damage. But don't you dare ever try to imply that DPS should be able to tell when they're bad too, because that might offend them. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.

[randysquirrel]

I may have missed it, but in 27 pages of comments, I haven't seen anyone offer up this point.

A lot of people appear to think they might come in for abuse if a parser was introduced. The easiest way to allay this fear is to do a respectable amount of dps. Not that difficult is it. Only if your numbers are shockingly poor is anyone likely to (justifiably) point it out. And I do only mean very low dps, I'm sure most people are aware there is some variance in how much dps each role can do, depending on encounter/rng (a good example being on A4 if you're the person quarantined)

I honestly don't know why we don't just get an in-game parser, and you can elect to have it either PUBLIC, PRIVATE or OFF.

PUBLIC the whole party can see.
PRIVATE only you can see.
OFF you don't give a rat's ass about number and will continue to blindly mill about doing your business.

And then make it so that pre-made's can choose to ONLY accept people that have their parser set to PUBLIC if they so wish.

I don't see how this wouldn't accommodate everyone, however ridiculous I personally may feel their opinions are

[spelley]

I don't get it. A bad tank can see that they're a bad tank when they lose aggro and die. A bad healer can see that they're a bad healer when parties start dying from unavoidable damage. But don't you dare ever try to imply that DPS should be able to tell when they're bad too, because that might offend them. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick.

Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous. For some reason people feel DPS deserve to be the blindspot where bad play can exist because they are the "for fun" Classes/Jobs I guess? I'd love to see more DPS checks in regular dungeon content (sprinkle them amongst the dungeon bosses all the way from 15-60 so that it's a constant thing). Healers and Tanks have very obvious fail-states (people dying due to unhealed damage & losing aggro constantly/dying due to tankbusters respectively) but DPS aren't given much feedback aside from "the thing died fast enough." Scaling DPS checks (still on the easy side, naturally) in regular dungeons would encourage people to push themselves more naturally than just letting them hit a wall at end game content.

This wouldn't work, however, unless there was a way to measure personal DPS. A personal parser I feel has no (or at least not nearly enough) downsides, it's when it is public that it becomes A Thing (TM) and even then, this community isn't toxic enough that I'd be too concerned about it.

[La_Bluegirl]

Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous. For some reason people feel DPS deserve to be the blindspot where bad play can exist because they are the "for fun" Classes/Jobs I guess? I'd love to see more DPS checks in regular dungeon content (sprinkle them amongst the dungeon bosses all the way from 15-60 so that it's a constant thing). Healers and Tanks have very obvious fail-states (people dying due to unhealed damage & losing aggro constantly/dying due to tankbusters respectively) but DPS aren't given much feedback aside from "the thing died fast enough." Scaling DPS checks (still on the easy side, naturally) in regular dungeons would encourage people to push themselves more naturally than just letting them hit a wall at end game content.

This wouldn't work, however, unless there was a way to measure personal DPS. A personal parser I feel has no (or at least not nearly enough) downsides, it's when it is public that it becomes A Thing (TM) and even then, this community isn't toxic enough that I'd be too concerned about it.

They'd just nerf it eventually, when everyone complains its too difficult - a la Amdapor keep Demon Wall. Man I loved that fight back in 2.0, it'd actually make DF groups disband because they couldn't even complete it. A pretty neat suggestion I saw someone write one time was have an encounter warp the dps to their own quadrant and give them an "ifrit nail" they need to dps down or else that dps would die. It'd very clearly show who needs some work, without a parser.

[LathusWHM]

They don't want to be exposed. It's okay. The reckoning is coming.

I think by accident, I actually exposed the TRUE problem behind parsers based on how this thread has exploded with yin/yangs


/panic

[spelley]

They'd just nerf it eventually, when everyone complains its too difficult - a la Amdapor keep Demon Wall. Man I loved that fight back in 2.0, it'd actually make DF groups disband because they couldn't even complete it. A pretty neat suggestion I saw someone write one time was have an encounter warp the dps to their own quadrant and give them an "ifrit nail" they need to dps down or else that dps would die. It'd very clearly show who needs some work, without a parser.

The reason it was nerfed in the first place was because by the time Ampador came around you were barely exposed to DPS checks at all. If they made it more of a regular/expected thing, people would change accordingly.