The Real Problem with Parsers

[Viridiana]

Nice and irrelevant analogy.

I dunno, it seems kinda spot on to me.

Can you guarantee that the only people kicked out have the option to get better? Meaning no medical issues restricting them or anything like that?

Yes, I can guarantee that.

And that's what premaking parties is for. If you refuse to exercise this option, why do you feel you have the right to take it out on other people?

No, joining content is entering a contract with the group to do, and be able to do, enough healing/tanking/dps to clear the content. I do have the right to remove people who fail to fulfill their part of that, just as others have the right to remove me if I fail to fulfill my part.

And it'd be up to you to prove that not enough would do it to worry about it. Good luck!

We've already had this conversation. The only people remotely in position to prove that would be SE, because they're the only people who can even remotely get the information needed to assess that. Can you stop dragging our conversation in circles?

The difference is that they're not forcing you to waste your time. You can create a group of your own if you want to control how long the run will take, and you can leave the run if you don't like it. Ignoring that you can premake groups with people you know doesn't make it an invalid point.

Except that they've wasted my queue time by failing the content. I went into the content in good faith that everyone present would be able to complete it, and someone decided to waste the time of the entire party--including their own.

What makes your time more worth it than theirs? Hint: No answer will make you not sound selfish.

What makes their queue time worth more than the time of the entire party? Hint: No answer will make them not sound selfish.

I'd live with it. I have before. But then, I don't put myself above the other person. They pay just as much as I do to play the game (probably).

Maybe help them get better? Just an idea.

So if the majority of people in DF are underperforming and are fine with it, as some people would have you believe with how much they rage about DF, then would you accept that what you consider underperforming is reasonable and you are unreasonable in thinking anybody should be kicked for it?

If the majority of the playerbase actually decided that MNKs doing less DPS than PLDs was reasonable, I think I'd unsubscribe. At that point I don't think there'd be any redemption.

The only objective "reasonable" DPS is enough to clear.

To paraphrase someone: if the boss dies one second before enrage, I've done too much DPS. Right?

Which would more effectively make people pull up their socks than kicking them. If you kick them, they just think that you're a jerk. If they only get grouped with other bad players and literally cannot complete the content, they have no choice but to get better. And in the end, if they're wasting their time in the runs because they literally cannot clear them, then that's still their choice.

We've actually tested this before. It was called Steps of Faith. People didn't get better, they whined until SE nerfed the content. The good players mostly finished SoF early and left the bads in the DF to their own devices. Suddenly SoF became inordinately difficult to do because no one would improve. Then it got nerfed. Hard. Because having content that forces the lowest group of DF to actually get halfway decent proved to be bad for SE's bottom line, apparently. Which goes back to that whole reputation thing.

Internet exists. This forum exists. If they're actually willing to want help getting better, they can either ask in the game or look at the various "guides" threads here. If they're not willing to seek out the help, odds are those people in DF wouldn't get through to them anyways.

Granted, but then they're probably having to leave whatever group they're in to look up guides.

The advantage to having more competent people in DF is the increase in resources available without leaving the game. Especially since some people refuse to go outside of the game for help. They can ask FC mates, obviously, but it'd be harder to do in the middle of an instance or trial before the group just gives up.

And some people might see it as a refreshing step away from the elitist mentality of other games. Two sides of the same coin, neither particularly more valid than the other.

If this is the mentality SE wants to breed, then strict DPS checks probably aren't the way to do it.

They allow ACT to exist and accept that people use it. They don't owe anything more. Start complaining when they try to start tracking it and ban anyone that uses it.

Cool. For PC users. Get back to me when they allow PS3 to have an equal footing.

Do you think that any world first savage clears were done with random groups? I'm suggesting doing something that has been an accepted part of MMOs since... well, a long dang time. I didn't pug Molten Core raids back in WoW, I tell ya what.

I mean, maybe the Elysium and Lucrezia groups never, ever use DF to play with anyone outside their FCs. And somehow I doubt that you never played with anyone outside the 40 people in your WoW raid back in the day.

Not really. I went through a dungeon run a couple days ago with a DRG that rarely used Heavy Thrust. Wasn't that hard to notice that the buff wasn't going on them after a quick glance at the threat meter showed them as half my BLM's threat with Quelling Strikes used.

And I've had a Titan group back in the day with a MNK who was only using Demolish every time Coeurl Form came up. It's less easy to notice something like that, where all buffs and debuffs are up as appropriate, but it's still a very significant issue.

Yep, and I still maintain my original position that personal parsers and party parsers are two different beasts and the former has objectively less drawbacks than the latter.

And objectively less benefits, too. And that's even if I grant harassment as a drawback of group parsers, which I don't think it is.