The Real Problem with Parsers

[Aiselia]

And if you aren't getting through because one person is a giant anchor around the neck of the party?

I've never been stuck on duty finder content that has repeatedly failed due to low DPS. Maybe I'm just so awesome I make up for anybody who's low. Generally any duty finder content has failed because of lack of attention to mechanics, not DPS.

Kicking them from group after trying to help them and them being unreceptive has a decent chance to work, though

It also has a decent chance of not working because you kicked them and wasted their queue, which could just lead to them being pissed off at you and even further not caring. If it's happening consistently, they could just go on to think that the community is just full of elitist jerks.

I've already made it clear in both these parser threads that I fully believe in trying to help people get better before resorting to kicking them, and you should know that.

Right, and as I said before, though not to you, you don't matter. Even if everybody in this thread said they'd try to help before kicking (don't kid yourself, it would be a lie for at least some if everybody in this thread said it), there will be people who won't. Those are the people that matter.

PF is still random people

But at least you get control over classes and can check gear beforehand to get a better idea.

If they choose not to improve, the rest of us have no onus to carry them.

"Low DPS" is not an option on vote kick. And it never should be.

But people unwilling to improve to the point that they can complete content...don't get to complete content. How is this a bad thing?

Whose standpoint are you asking from? The person who may just want to clear content but doesn't care to be all serious about it which is why they don't bother with a static? That'd be bad for them.
From the standpoint of a person who's grouping randomly but unwilling to deal with who they randomly get? Might be okay for them.
For a company who would probably lose players if low DPS is such an all-encompassing problem because they just keep getting kicked from runs and don't see the point in continuing to pay for a game full of elitists? I think this is the most important standpoint, don't you? Remember, SE is, above all else, a company. If they start losing players due to the people trying to cleanse the casual filth out of THEIR duty roulettes, they're losing money.

[StouterTaru]

I've never been stuck on duty finder content that has repeatedly failed due to low DPS. Maybe I'm just so awesome I make up for anybody who's low. Generally any duty finder content has failed because of lack of attention to mechanics, not DPS.

Or maybe you haven't done any real content in duty finder, since your top job is 50.

[Aiselia]

Or maybe you haven't done any real content in duty finder, since your top job is 50.

Or maybe the character I choose to show to the forum is entirely irrelevant to what I have or haven't done.

[RiceisNice]

Or maybe the character I choose to show to the forum is entirely irrelevant to what I have or haven't done.

Honestly, you're better off putting your main or whatever to backup your own perspectives. I don't see the point of having using an alternate character to maintain anonymity...on an online forum.

That being said, I do not like carrying people who can't be assed to learn their class rotations, let alone bring up the "I play how I want card" and they're significantly slowing down the party. It's well within the realm of kicking since it's "playstyle" difference, but on my perspective, you have to be severely bad to push my threshold (that is, spamming full thrust or windbite bad).

I mean honestly, a DRG can hit 700 just by spamming heavy thrust with positional bonus... That's not in the realm of being elite, and certainly not in the realm of being bad. When you're pushing sub 200s in a post-50 DF group, don't be responsive or effecitvely tell us to piss off, neither one of us is probably going to be staying in that party for long.

[Aiselia]

I don't want them in my DF pool.

Unfortunately for you, then, it isn't your pool. It's everybody's pool. They could just as easily say that they don't want people who'd kick them over DPS in their DF pool and be just as valid because you're both players.

What's the problem, again?

The effect they have before they get reported.

Both of which are very nearly meaningless metrics.

Still better than going in blind.

"Carry me, senpai!" is not an option on the DF queue.

What's carrying to you may be fine to them. Just like what may be justified kicking due to carrying to you is harassment to them and will just get them to report you. Again, who decides the threshold of what's carrying and what's not? Some people may feel that if someone's doing 800 DPS on a class with gear that could be doing 1200 DPS is being carried. Are they right in that assumption? Should SE make a new set of rules to govern what's carrying and what's not carrying? Or should they just deal with extra reports from people getting kicked for that?

And again I'll ask, what happens if you kick the person you were carrying, open up to fill the spot, and then another person comes in that's just as bad or worse? Do you kick them to? What gives you the right to waste multiple peoples' queue times? If you don't want to carry a person, what's stopping YOU from leaving the party and not forcing your will on someone else?

How many players stop playing because they're tired of people thinking they deserve to clear content just because they can queue for it?

If they do, then they clearly didn't exercise the options available to them by premaking parties.

You can't just pretend there isn't another side to this.

I'm not. I'm just not saying that my side is more important than anyone else's, and especially not more important than SE's. Fact is, if SE says they don't want to risk problems with people being harassed or kicked because of their DPS, then saying "Sure there will be problems but eventually there might not be" isn't going to convince them otherwise.

That's the only character on your account. If you have another account, by all means link it?

That's the only character on my account I've chosen to display.

Honestly, you're better off putting your main or whatever to backup your own perspectives.

I intentionally do not to weed out the people who choose ad hominem arguments over real ones. Even if this was my only character, it does not invalidate my argument and so is irrelevant. What I have personally done in the game is irrelevant to the merits and drawbacks of a system allowing people to kick based on DPS.

[hallena]

something something harrasment/report/ban.

I once queu'd for a dungeon in 2.4 and the tank decided he would not do anything for 15minutes until we can kick him and afk at the beginning of the run. We opened a ticket and the GM told us he is allowed to play however he want. Nothing happened to him.
So good luck on your crusade to report everyone, rambo.

who decides the threshold of what's carrying and what's not?

The majority apparently. If a votekick is initiated and the majority voted yes, The group don't want you with them. Either you deal with it or rename yourself brianna, make a patreon and go on twitter telling everyone about how much of a victim you are. I'm sure more people will care about your world first problem there than here.
OR
Get good and people will stop vote kicking you

[Aiselia]

So good luck on your crusade to report everyone, rambo.

Sorry, were you meaning to quote Viridiana? Because they're the one that suggested that "the community would be cleaned up" by reporting people who would just use parsers as an excuse to kick. I'm the one that didn't say anything about reporting people except that it'd only cause an increase in tickets, which obviously would be a downside to SE.

Get good and people will stop vote kicking you

OR take your eyes off your parser for ten minutes and look up a guide on how to preform a party. You'll find it does wonders for not having to worry about whether you're carrying people, and run time will go up if you run with the same people so you know how to work together better.

But by all means, keep posting. You're only helping the argument against adding parsers by being an example of the people they're trying to avoid.

[RiceisNice]

...
What I have personally done in the game is irrelevant to the merits and drawbacks of a system allowing people to kick based on DPS.

Yes it does actually. It'd be the equivalent of me saying that I've done A3S and A3S is too easy, without any sort of proof that I've even stepped into A3S. In which case, you don't have any classes beyond level 50. It's entirely relevant of showing how far you are into the game which gives us an idea on what perspective (or lack of) you're speaking from.

And honestly, some of these kicks can happen without a parser anyway. It's damn too obvious to tell that someone is slacking because they are spamming the same skill over and over (which leads to +15-20 minute added runs) and someone who is not an elite (which at most, adds maybe 5 minutes).

When its actually needed is when you're trying to curnch numbers to meet checks in the likes of savage...which unfortunately PS3/4 players are SoL of doing so on their own time.

[Aiselia]

Yes it does actually.

No, it isn't relevant. The effect of having parsers in game on the community has nothing to do with what I've done in the game. Are you saying that if I have cleared A4S, that means I am more right about parsers causing more kicks and harassment than if I haven't even cleared Ravana HM?

It's damn too obvious to tell that someone is slacking because they are spamming the same skill over and over

Then clearly parsers are not as necessary to holding DPS accountable as people would argue. I can tell easily when there's any significantly underperforming DPS, so I don't know why people say it's so hard.

And remember: The problem isn't the people who would hold off kicking until the person's adding half an hour to the run. It's the people who would boot as soon as they think they're going to add that 5 minutes.