The Real Problem with Parsers

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The real problem here is that the OP is generalizing too much.

Yes, parsers CAN be used to discriminate and exclude players. But in the end it's nothing but a tool. I can misuse a hammer if I so choose, but does that mean there should be a restriction on hammers? I could abuse the Lootmaster system if I wanted, but should we have that removed or excluded? The bigger point is why should we restrict or avoid a useful tool for the community as a whole just because of the POSSIBILITY of misuse by a few?

Let me put another perspective on this, similar in concern, but different: Astrologians. Their heal potencies were INTENTIONALLY low-balled initially because the devs didn't want people to just enforce double AST comps (and even now, still don't). Is that kind of cynicism justification to limit a new job? If you say no, then consider if the OP's cynicism is really justifiable for not wanting parsers in game AT ALL.

There ARE people who won't misuse it and WANT to get better, rather than simply accepting the (rather condescending by the way the OP uses it) "casual" label and never seeking improvement.

[Viridiana]

Having a parser would only make clueless players keep extra high requirements in addition to the absurd ilevel requirements there are for some premade parties

I'd rather be kicked based on a useful metric than a useless one. This argument actually better supports the pro-parsing side.

[ajx]

I'd rather be kicked based on a useful metric than a useless one. This argument actually better supports the pro-parsing side.

A4 normal 2 runs /Ramuh Pony farm : 1k DPS or kick.

I don't see how this would support the pro parsing side .

Or let's say kick lowest dps who's lower by just 50 dps cause u got no clue why u wiped. This is the same community that kicks someone for explaining tactics to a first timer, or an AST for being nocturnal or early pulls every hunt.

Hardcore raiders who really need it are using parsers. Those who don't use it right now probably don't really need it

[Yaptap]

While many players feel they have the right to play however they like, they fail to realize that in a MULTIPLAYER online game, one should have the common decency and courtesy to do one's best for the sake of the GROUP. One should not take a single-player mentality into an MMORPG, which many players are currently doing.

In a given dungeon with two equally geared DPS, if one is doing 1000 DPS and the other is doing 400 DPS, UNLESS the lower DPS is new or still learning rotations, such a discrepancy should not exist under normal conditions. But you'll hear about people saying that they are playing with one hand, watching a movie on another monitor, or just too lazy to care. But to them, it's okay because they paid their monthly subs. If that's the case, then they should have been more considerate of the other players in their groups who are willing to put in the effort to complete a dungeon quickly and efficiently.

[Yaptap]

I'm sure you wouldn't want to be the person stuck with completing 90% of the work for a group project at school while the other team members got to slack off but still receive the same credit. And if there were a way to prevent that from happening, you'd probably want to make use of it for any upcoming group assignments. Parsers are an objective way to measure player contribution in dungeons/raids, so that one can monitor other people's input but also strive for personal improvement.

TLDR: In a single player game, do whatever you want. But by engaging in an MMO, you can't just think of yourself and whatever is most convenient to you. Parsers provide a means of gauging everyone's effort in a TEAM BASED scenario. There is no reason to prohibit parsers for day-to-day use; only those abusing parsers should be reprimanded.

Also, it's unfortunate that the term casual is now associated with being bad and elitist with being a prick.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Those who don't use it right now probably don't really need it

We've covered all the negatives by now. Now let's cover some positives:

There's a thread about MCH openers. If that guy had access to a parser perhaps, he could - and this might sound crazy - PRACTICE different openers til he found the most effective one. How would he know it's effective? Numbers. Maybe using one buff before another or one skill after another may produce a better result in the end? That parser may help him.

There have been people who operate on half-gathered, or misinformed knowledge of their jobs for a long time, mainly due to just not having visual evidence of how wrong it may be. Perhaps they still get the job done, but imagine if they could now see that they're producing B-grade damage, when a few changes and tweaks could easily make them A-grade?

Why don't we stop looking at all that can go wrong and look instead at what just might go right?

[Craiger]

Not everyone uses parsers, especially in easier content, but there are enough that do, that you're going to run into them a lot.

I've grouped up with a ton of players that have the mentality I see the OP and some others have. They clearly don't care about doing good. Do I see a lot of players being kicked or harassed about it? no...

Maybe my server/database is extra nice (doubt it), but I really don't see all the harassing that seems to take place according to others... Not saying it doesn't happen, but it rarely happens, and a lot of those who harass someone, are gonna do it even without a parser.

People keep mentioning that you can check the enmity bar to see how much DPS someone is doing... Well, if that's the case (it isn't), then what do you think would happen if you couldn't use a parser? Players would learn how to determine how good someone is doing, by just looking at that enmity bar. Some might be smart, and know how skills, burst and other things can affect it, and base it on that, and some will just harass players that aren't actually doing bad, their job just doesn't generate as much enmity... either way, it's not going to fix anything. Should they remove the enmity bar too??

IMO the OP is being the ass right now... Ever considered that there are a ton of players that really likes using parsers, and don't harass players with it? The same thing can be said about a ton of real life things too... The internet have been abused by a ton of people through the years, should that be turned off just because of that?

EDIT: There are a lot of assholes in savage though, but if you're doing raids, you can't expect to get very far, without having used a parser/asked someone else about your DPS... Which is another reason it's stupid to not let people use parsers

[segagamer]

All I'm seeing from this thread is a couple of people QQing because they probably got kicked from dungeons for having shit dps and now want them gone completely.

[Eye_Gore]

Gonna bite here: on average it should take around 15 to 20 minutes to clear a dungeon, unless it is one like Aurum Vale in which you add at least an additional 10 minutes on top of that estimate.

Was just curious as to what others thought. I always said bout 20-30 minutes. When I go into an instance I'm expecting at least 30 minutes which I don't think is unreasonable seems about the average. In anything other than the high end content what good does a parser do anyways. I mean we've all run expert till our eyes bleed and we already know how fast mobs should die. You can tell without a parser that someone isn't doing as much as another.

[hallena]

Was just curious as to what others thought. I always said bout 20-30 minutes. When I go into an instance I'm expecting at least 30 minutes which I don't think is unreasonable seems about the average. In anything other than the high end content what good does a parser do anyways. I mean we've all run expert till our eyes bleed and we already know how fast mobs should die. You can tell without a parser that someone isn't doing as much as another.

Then why are you against parser. I'd rather precise numbers than *Yep, SOMEONE in the group is bad*