The Real Problem with Parsers

[Viridiana]

It counts as selfish force your will to negatively impact somebody else when you have the option to remove yourself from that party as well as create your own parties. You seem to keep glossing over the fact that nobody is forcing you into DF to deal with these people.

And nobody is forcing me to stay in my home country, either, but that doesn't make it selfish to try to improve my country instead of just leaving it. Even if that means, say, taxes go up for someone.

If someone leaves the game because people are just kicking them, well...

It's their fault for not exercising their option to get better. Or are you saying they have no autonomy? >_>

A more relevant analogy would have been that I don't take it upon myself to empty a bottle of rubbing alcohol on somebody else's cut because they didn't care to clean it themselves.

But if I need someone around who doesn't have a bleeding arm, I'm not going to let someone in with a bleeding arm. Just like if I need someone who can do X DPS, I'm not going to take someone who has less than X DPS. The person with a bleeding arm can dress their wound and get better. The person not doing enough DPS can do more DPS and get better.

If it would keep those people out of DF, yes.

Good to know that you're all for regressing to 2.0 launch.

It is. Acceptable DPS is subjective. You may feel like you're carrying someone only if they're doing 200 DPS. Someone else may feel like they're carrying someone if they're doing only 900 DPS when they could be doing 1200. That's why it shouldn't be a valid reason for kicking.

Except, y'know, it already is on the basis of "differing play styles." Only difference is at the moment you can't point at someone's DPS as the reason. Or at least, you can't use actual numbers when doing so.

Which leads us back to "It doesn't matter if YOU would. It matters if anybody would."

The question isn't actually if anyone would do it, but rather how many would do it. Again, if we prohibited every feature that could lead to harassment, we would have almost no features.

And that's their own choice that they make. You aren't chosen to make the choice for them.

They've already done it. I'm not choosing for them regarding their queue time. I'm choosing for them regarding my time. Because, y'know, they have no right to waste my time any more than I have a right to waste their time. But they've already wasted their time, and I'm saving their time and mine simultaneously. So I don't really know what the heck you're going on about.

Or, option 3, you can leave the run and not force your will on someone else.

Oh, so I should sacrifice my own time by abandoning the group and not contributing what I signed on to do when I queued, thereby breaking the social contract. I should just renege on the dungeon whenever there's adversity. Instead of identifying the actual problem and rectifying it. Got it.

I'd start preforming my parties. Regardless, if someone's only autoattacking, there's problems there besides "Their DPS is too low." Not sure how many times I'll have to say this, but the biggest issue is not the people who see someone slapping themselves on follow while they don't play the game (which if they do, I'd consider that AFKing, and an auto-attack only person may be poorly botting which I'd file under cheating). The biggest issue is the people who simply see anything less than A4S-clear quality playing as being carried.

Good job only addressing the easiest target. Now how about the person parsing below the PLD or healer or LB DPS?

Never seen anybody sell carries for anything I'd use DF for. Which is to say, I don't use DF for things like EX primals or raids except possibly the 24-man ones. And why don't I? Because I'm aware that there will be people in there that are going to just be bad, and proactively exercise my options to avoid them.

See, with sentiments like that, we can make you an elitist in no time! Meanwhile, y'know, efforts to build up the playerbase. Because, y'know, trying to help people be better.

Are you the objective judge of what's reasonable?

To quote you: Ask everybody. It's called the "reasonable person standard." Get a sense of what most people consider reasonable, and use that as your standard.

I'm not. I'm telling the people who don't want to deal with random people to make premades. Some of us competent people don't really care if we take 40 minutes in Neverreap or 20. A clear's a clear.

Okay, I shouldn't have said "all." You're still advocating increasing the concentration of bad players in DF.

At which point they either learn to swim or they sink, which is just as likely to increase average skill level of DF without having some random person arbitrarily take the decision on how valuable another person's queue time was upon themselves.

At which point they have to teach themselves how to swim with no guidance, you mean. Because a chunk of people who could be helping them aren't in DF anymore. And it has nothing to do with queue time.

Ask them. And ask everybody what they think of the company, rather than asserting your own viewpoint as what their reputation is.

I'm only asserting a valid aspect of their reputation. These are things that are already said about SE. It's probably not the first thing most people think of, but some people might. But persisting in giving us tight DPS checks with no way to check our DPS will contribute to a reputation of what's basically unfairness.

Click on Settings at the top right. Go to the left under "My settings > My profile" and click "Edit Character". This gives you a list of all characters on your account. Anything in brown is displayed, anything grey is not. The one with the gold star is your "main". It's the same place you pick which jobs to display.

Didn't realize that clicking the block instead of the star would turn it off. Learn something new every day.

Of course not, if you're still taking random people that you don't know and don't really check up on beforehand, which I'd hope you would do if you were going to do anything serious where top-tier DPS really is quite important.

Or I can expect people to not join a group for something if they can't complete it. And of course, you're actually suggesting having a pool of people to choose from and never playing with anyone outside them. Which defeats the whole Massively part of MMO.

I wasn't trying to extrapolate it out to everyone. I said that the people who have significant issues can be seen without parsers. Anyone without a significant issue isn't generally worth calling out or necessarily preventing the group from clearing unless it's top-tier content, in which case I'd expect at least one person already has a parser and doesn't need a built-in one.

Except that some of the significant issues are still hard to see unless you spend an inordinate amount of time watching one person. And you're therefor putting all the burden of identifying the issues on the PC players. And it reduces the self-reliance of PS3/PS4 players. I feel like we already had this conversation.