The Real Problem with Parsers

[Craiger]

well, personally im pro parser.

By implementing parsers, se would grant the bad players the chance to get better.
How can someone know that hes bad if he cannot see what other ppl do in the same job & gear. By implementing parsers you wouldnt blame ppl (cuz if they are bad, they get blamed by derps anyway), you allow them to compete with others and get better.

That will make fun to the casual players as well, cuz everyone likes to improve. (hey i got stronger)

Well to get things together: implement parsers and see how the community will get better. If you want to save the ones who dont like it, give them the opportunity to disable themselves beeing parsed. You´ll see that very few ones will disable it cuz thats a quote for themselves: "yes, i am bad"

I fully agree, and posted something similar in this thread, but there was actually a good point brought up in response to it... The players can only see that they're doing bad, if they get players that aren't bad themselves. Even if they do like double their DPS, that doesn't really say much nowadays in dungeons.

I don't know what have happened since 2.X, but 300-400 DPS on a boss fight in a dungeon, is the normal now, 1000+ DPS is like a once in a month discovery (for me at least).

There should be something that tells the player that they need to improve, and if you can see others DPS too, then it should indicate how well the others are doing too.

I really do hope to see more players getting good DPS in dungeons soon. It has nothing to do with clearing them faster (although that is nice too), but easy content like dungeons, is perfect for learning how to play you're job better, and practicing before moving up to harder content. Alex normal is even better for that, but why not train on all content? When I started playing MNK for the first time, I trained hard in dungeons while doing my roulettes, cause training on a dummy won't go far, and just jumping into Savage, is a bad idea...

[Whiteroom]

I fully agree, and posted something similar in this thread, but there was actually a good point brought up in response to it... The players can only see that they're doing bad, if they get players that aren't bad themselves. Even if they do like double their DPS, that doesn't really say much nowadays in dungeons.

I don't know what have happened since 2.X, but 300-400 DPS on a boss fight in a dungeon, is the normal now, 1000+ DPS is like a once in a month discovery (for me at least).

Well the game does force you to run instances many times, so you will see a good cross section. So the counter that it depends on who you get in your run, becomes moot fairly quickly.

The sad part about the numbers you posted is that an ilvl 186 DRG with a 180 weapon can do 600 just spamming the thrust combo and nothing else. No buffs or procs. Just three base actions. That people are in defense of people doing half of that as just fine is a little crazy.

[AniCelestine]

(Note: I didn't bother reading 66 pages, read the OP and first page so yeah, I might or might not say something everyone else has said the past 65 pages)

Parsers parsers parsers. Everyone complains 'bout parsers and how they should be banned because that's the only way you can tell if a Job specifically designed to be dealing alot of damage is doing a bad job at that thing.

Here's a question for all the people who hates parsers and wants them gone: Do you never want to kick a tank for not knowing how to do their job? Or do you not want to kick a healer that can't keep anyone alive in the party? That's their job's equilevant of doing a bad job.

Sure, in most cases if a damage dealing class is doing less than 500 dps at lvl 60 it doesn't mean you're unable to complete the duty but it's still as annoying for the other people in the group if you're doing a bad job as a dps, as it is annoying for you a if tank or healer is doing a bad job, let's face it, you're not going to be sitting in that one dungeon willingly wiping on that one boss you just can't clear cause your healer can't heal you through it for 90 minutes or the tank keeps losing aggro on the boss that just runs up to the healer and one shots it.


The main reason why we need parsers in this game, is the insane dps checks you have at the end game. You can't just tell a person to "get good" if there's nothing you can reflect your results onto.
Sure, one could get a recording software, start recording and punch the dummy for that 3:30min and then rewatch the video, add up all the dmg done and then calculate the dps done in that fashion, but that requires you to have good enough specs on your PC or bought software(I believe, correct me if I'm wong) in order to record it incase you're still using ps3. Then, you need to spend alot more time on making sure you did all the calculations correctly while re-watching the video, rewinding, pausing, playing, making a time stamp with x amout of dmg done incase you lose track, etc etc.


Tell me, if there was alot easier and less time consuming way to do a certain task than what you'd otherwise have to do to get the same result, would you still want to do the more time consuming and harder way?


There are people who have really wrong mentality 'bout Duty Finder and Parsers and that's the main issue. Duty Finder is a place where you just simply can't expect perfection* and most stuff (ex roulet) you do at DF doesn't require absolute perfection. Just fucking deal with it, or get your static's 8man group to divide into 2 groups that run that ex roulet every day(4dps 2 healers 2 tanks = 2x 2dps 1 healer 1 tank surprised?) to get that daily eso bonus you're so madly after that you absolutely need to kick people that are sub-perfect.

*(Though I've heard that JP people use DF for perfect runs and PF for training, but as far as I know that's not how it works on the English speaking servers).

There was that clever modified version of a existing quote 'bout guns and people.

Parsers don't VTK people. People VTK people.

Best Regards,
Healer top dps on 70% of my daily DR runs, do you see me kicking people? No.

[CdlC_Elrond]

The main reason why we need parsers in this game, is the insane dps checks you have at the end game. You can't just tell a person to "get good" if there's nothing you can reflect your results onto.

Point. To beat certain dps checks in endgame, you have to use parsers to improve and manage to do your best dps while doin certain mechanics. So my point is: if se would implement an ingame parser, ppl will get stronger cuz they can see "oh im not that good as i thought." and will train to improve.This will make the whole community much better, we`ll all get smoother dungeon runs, smoother alex normal modes and even more players gettin in savage mode. If Square does not know if or if not would be the best choice, then well let all the players vote, and well for ppl that are strictly against, give them the option to deactivate beeing parsed.

[Tsilyi]

As much as I don't care whether they implement parsers or not, I can tell you from playing other games that DO have them... making them legal is absolutely not going to miraculously raise the level of skill the playerbase has. There will always be multitudes of people who are awful. People who will seek help to do better are already getting advice from skilled players and using parsers themselves. Don't fool yourself into thinking the average player is going to somehow get better just because parsers are suddenly allowed.

[MentheusDreyar]

Snip.

Of course it isn't going to magically make them better no one is arguing against that, only people who care to put in the effort will do so, but it gives everyone the tools to potentially get better. Maybe after they see their numbers they will be motivated to improve, maybe not, but it has far more uses than just for those people too

Ignoring all the a-holes that abuse people regardless of a parser or not:

Best case scenario: We'll see a general increase of player skill and content completion rate and DF actually becomes a reliable way of completing content rather than the cesspool it is now.
Worst Case scenario: We have a tool to assess party performance and police those players that are preventing content from being completed either by giving advice or replacing them or are otherwise trolling parties and completion rate picks up ranging from DF to PF.

[AniCelestine]

...People who will seek help to do better are already getting advice from skilled players and using parsers themselves...

Players on ps3/4 who might possibly want to get better don't necessarily know anyone who could parse them, or they could be afraid to search for one since they're "illegal"

But yes, it won't miraculous make everyone top tier dps, but gives chances for them who can't parse themselves cause of ps3/4

[Merkava]

Not to mention that parsers have other positive uses aside from checking on party overall DPS.

Astrologian just got a Balance card? If they had a parser they will most likely give it to the highest DPS in the party, making the most of it.

Tank having emnity issues because of i-gear gap? Being able to tell who exactly is pulling the big numbers allows you to take better control of the mobs. Party doing bad numbers? Don't bother with a big pull (instead of face rolling into it and learning through your own death [then we blame]).

The positives of using parsers far outweight the negatives. People who are rude about parsing (I agree that people who are in a rush shouldn't be using PF to begin with) do not override everything that is potentially good about it.

Chances are good DPS won't cry over others bad DPS anyway.

Parsers should be allowed or offered ingame

[RobBull]

I've played MMOs since the late 90s and most of the games I have played have parsers. In non-raid settings, I can count the number of times I have personally witnessed harassment due to low DPS on one hand. The paranoia about how parsers will make the community toxic is unfounded and laughable. It's the MMO equivalent of "Reefer Madness." When I think about it, I wonder if a lot of this is brought on by people's own perception of inadequacy rather than actual run-ins with other players. It's like being a guy with average endowment walking into a locker room and being worried that people will think your junk is small. Most of the time, people aren't even looking

[RussW]

The problem with parsing in this game is that the bosses disappear and reappear or jump or whatever. Someone could lose 50+ dps based on the add placement on oppressor. The first boss in neverreap (people do parse expert roulette) disappears before my wildfire will go off. Monk and dragoon have gap closers that bring them back to the boss faster than ninja who has a ground targeted gap closer instead of an instant one. After studying damage meters for basically 10 years in wow theres a ton of variables involved. A lot of people have no idea about variables due to randomness and periods of inactivity.

Theres a gear disparity as well. Just because I have full eso gear doesnt mean that i should be able to dog someone in 180/190 gear and that doesnt mean someone in 210 gear should be able to dog someone lower than that. On top of this ive seen people use raid food and potions in expert.

This being said I think its passed time for one to be in game because it basically already is.