The Real Problem with Parsers

[JackFross]

this made me laugh. GG

I didn't respond to it because they're not wrong! lol

[JonBigwood]

I think parsers have their place and allow people to get better at their job. As they are now, the disadvantage is that players in PS4 cannot install one and have to ask a friend to parse them (not that great a deal but inconvenient.) I see the good side of parsing being something private.

Parsing people at leveling dungeons or duty roulettes, except to know how well or bad you do, does not look too practical. A stranger won't learn a new rotation inside a dungeon, and just some tips can be given without parsing (at your own risk many times.) When you enter a leveling dungeon you know people are learning and some will be better than others. In Duty Finder you take the risk to meet not so good players or maybe players just at entry level or new to the place, for the convenience of not having to make a premade party.

I don't think kicking someone out of a dungeon (duty finder) for playing under average is justified. I can't recall all motives for kicking, but they are like being afk, being disconnected, harassment, etc. Playing terribly and with no interest, or being very undergeared, or very wrongly geared (spiritbonding all crafting gear for example) may be considered harassment, but being unexperienced or under averaged skilled not. Unwillingness to co-operate may be considered harassment too.

Party Finder is different, since you make a group that needs to progress or farm and there is much more freedom to kick. It is in extreme primals or difficult raids where parsers make sense (and striking dummies of course.) They allow you to discover you are underperforming and work to get better. Making just a few changes may improve the performance a lot, and you might not be aware of your low numbers if nobody says it to you, nor have good way of improving wihout measuring. It may be necessary to kick someone who underperforms if you want to succeed. Being polite and helpful when kicking is important too.

Edit: About personal parsers, better that than nothing, but it is more useful if you can compare. If you only see your numbers you don't know how well/bad you do unless other people tell you what is considered good/bad at that gear.

[Alex_Lenderson]

I think parsers have their place and allow people to get better at their job. As they are now, the disadvantage is that players in PS4 cannot install one and have to ask a friend to parse them (not that great a deal but inconvenient.) I see the good side of parsing being something private.

Parsing people at leveling dungeons or duty roulettes, except to know how well or bad you do, does not look too practical. A stranger won't learn a new rotation inside a dungeon, and just some tips can be given without parsing (at your own risk many times.) When you enter a leveling dungeon you know people are learning and some will be better than others. In Duty Finder you take the risk to meet not so good players or maybe players just at entry level or new to the place, for the convenience of not having to make a premade party.

I don't think kicking someone out of a dungeon (duty finder) for playing under average is justified. I can't recall all motives for kicking, but they are like being afk, being disconnected, harassment, etc. Playing terribly and with no interest, or being very undergeared, or very wrongly geared (spiritbonding all crafting gear for example) may be considered harassment, but being unexperienced or under averaged skilled not. Unwillingness to co-operate may be considered harassment too.

Party Finder is different, since you make a group that needs to progress or farm and there is much more freedom to kick. It is in extreme primals or difficult raids where parsers make sense (and striking dummies of course.) They allow you to discover you are underperforming and work to get better. Making just a few changes may improve the performance a lot, and you might not be aware of your low numbers if nobody says it to you, nor have good way of improving wihout measuring. It may be necessary to kick someone who underperforms if you want to succeed. Being polite and helpful when kicking is important too.

Edit: About personal parsers, better that than nothing, but it is more useful if you can compare. If you only see your numbers you don't know how well/bad you do unless other people tell you what is considered good/bad at that gear.

But you end up doing the same dungeons over and over again. A personal parser would let you see how you did and see if you are improving.

[Craiger]

But you end up doing the same dungeons over and over again. A personal parser would let you see how you did and see if you are improving.

Unless they know that they're way behind, they're probably not gonna bother with it... and even if they do, they probably won't change their rotation/general play enough to make a huge difference.

If they see 300 DPS now, and improve to 400, they could think they have mastered their job now or something if they don't have any idea what numbers they should be getting. If they suddenly see that some players are doing 1300 DPS on the same fight, they will instantly know that they're way behind and need to change something to improve.

Some here might think 300 DPS is kind of an extreme case, but I've seen more at 300-400 DPS than people at 800+ DPS.

[Aiselia]

If they see 300 DPS now, and improve to 400, they could think they have mastered their job now

And yet on the flip side, if they don't know what numbers they should be getting and are doing 600 when they could be doing 1300 with their gear but they only get people who do 300-400, they will think they're doing great.

Difference is that if someone's pulling 300-400 when they could be doing 1300 with their gear, it's probably not because they don't know they could do better, but because they don't care.

Terrible when they could do good is more likely a sign of not caring enough to try.
Passable when they could do good is more likely that they're just not optimizing rotation and may care... unless they get terrible players a lot that make them look good.

A party parser is unlikely to help someone doing 300 when their gear allows for 1300.

[Gorlioliolio]

If a persons gear allows for 1300 they probably have some 210 pieces and by that point should know their rotation, if they are doing 300 at that point they are either a) trolling b) being a dick, or c) have never given a crap and expect the whole world owes them everything and we should all carry them.

Should I then be forced to examine them, see their gear is definitely above their dps (but who are we kidding, just being level 60 in 50 gear=more than 500 dps) then watch them for the next couple pulls to see what they are doing, if it's a class I don't have leveled research their rotation and then watch them some more to see what they are doing wrong. At that point be like "heeeeey buddy, so I don't think your doing your rotation right, and umm I think it would be nice for everyone here if you just tried it like this.... k thanks bud, have a great day".

Or would it be nice to be able to kick someone who is i200+ just by looking at the number beside their name saying "this idiot is pulling less than I can on a 50 bard, gg".

Why should anyone be forced to deal with these a-holes? You can kick a tank for having terrible agro, a healer for letting people die, but if I can sit on my hands and auto attack for 2/3rd of what this guy is doing I can't say a god damn word because parsers are bad and peoples feelings are more important than wasting 3-7 peoples time.

Edit: And once again I'm not advocating kicking someone for slightly subpar dps, 600 for a fresh 60 learning their new rotations 800+ for someone being lazy but having some decent gear at 60 don't really bother me, it's the people who are going out of their way to waste peoples time while not being "afk" because they are technically attacking everything.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

Well in duty finder people shouldn't care so much but in party finder dps matters, because for a start you are wasting peoples time if you cant even play your class right.

DF is the polite way of saying fast queues but at least I wont be expected to preform while party finder on savage/extreme and clear party runs its inappropriate to join if you don't know how to play your class effectively and should be blacklisted. Join a learning party if unsure about rotations and stuff then maybe people will offer you advice if not black list and report to others on undesirable trolls.

[Sida]

I count myself fairly casual player because I don't raid dedicated ly and have no real desire to get in the savage race. Yet I play 40 hours a week (or more) try to level and learn about every class, enjoy of crafting and gathering, have made couple Zetas.. I just refuse to feel the pressure to get to the end, while I enjoy the journey.

[kensatsu]

it don't make you a casual player,
a casual player don't play 40 hours by week.
also if your fc is not dedicated to the raid race, you may just raid few hours by week like a lot of players.
you can be hardcore but dedicated to others thing than the raid.

[CdlC_Elrond]

well, personally im pro parser.

By implementing parsers, se would grant the bad players the chance to get better.
How can someone know that hes bad if he cannot see what other ppl do in the same job & gear. By implementing parsers you wouldnt blame ppl (cuz if they are bad, they get blamed by derps anyway), you allow them to compete with others and get better.

That will make fun to the casual players as well, cuz everyone likes to improve. (hey i got stronger)

Well to get things together: implement parsers and see how the community will get better. If you want to save the ones who dont like it, give them the opportunity to disable themselves beeing parsed. You´ll see that very few ones will disable it cuz thats a quote for themselves: "yes, i am bad"