The Real Problem with Parsers

[Anze-chan]

That just took me forever to read, but it seems like a lot of people are arguing with nothing but based assumptions on how the community will be reacting to parsers when they are out. I've been playing this game for a while now and I can't believe how SE is spoon-feeding their playerbase on every single level. And if I have learned anything from the past year, it's that SE doesn't meddle when it's a player/player perception issue, they only care when it's game/player issue. Right now this parser thing seems like a player/player issue and the only reason why SE would do something about parsing when reported isn't because it's being used to confront people or whatever, it's because of the third party tool and that breaks their rules. Once parsers are a part of this game officially, people will have to learn to deal with it.

[Stupiduglytaru]

I had a case the other day in DD, pulls were taking ages to die. I noticed the blm was single AF building then using transpose, I politely pointed out he should use fire III then fire II and finish up with a blizzard III. The healer immediately responses with "your just being a dick, I'm sure he knows the basics.

I responded " I have been watching his casts to see why things aren't dieing" to which I was called a stalker lel

The blm mentioned he was highest dps (second dps was a ninja not following positinals) I had a little chuckle to myself.

Even with a parser it won't make you a better player but I'm sure once he comes across another blm and sees the major dps difference he will realise hes doing it wrong.

[RiceisNice]

I had a case the other day in DD, pulls were taking ages to die. I noticed the blm was single AF building then using transpose, I politely pointed out he should use fire III then fire II and finish up with a blizzard III. The healer immediately responses with "your just being a dick, I'm sure he knows the basics.

In this situation it would've been nice to quantify numbers to prove your point. It's an example of where regardless of having a parser (the BLM comparing himself to a NIN, both being subpar) or not (the blm is never keeps AF), you can still tell people are playing less than ideal and it won't stop them (or their perception of others) being a douche.


On a side note, I ran into a BLM last night that would never keep AF either. Would always do fire II to drop UI stacks, then blizzard x2 to get UI2, and fire II. On a single target. Not responsive either and would always follow closely to the healer, so the rest of us in the party assumed he was a bot and got removed around the second boss.

[Archaell]

Full fledged group parsers could do more harm than good, but there could be some sort of middle ground.

I think that the best solution would be to give everyone personal parser, so they can see their own performance, and the rest of the group should see only icons similar to enmity.

Something like: Bellow 70% of average dps of the class red icon, <80% orange, <90% yellow, 90-110% green, 110%+ blue.

Of course that would require some work on developers' part to determine what the average is and how it is calculated.

[TheMax1087]

snip

Considering the players were better at ninja than the devs believed was possible, a metric of average dps determined by them would be a bit suspect.

[ForbiddenMonk]

When your lowest dps is doing +400 below the 3rd place dps and 50 below tank, it gets pretty frustrating, especially when you're broke and cant afford xpots and with the tight dps checks in a3 and a4 savage. Having a personal parser here would help make the player aware of his shortcomings.

And help him "git gud"

[Sida]

How about a middle ground, between personal parsers and group ones. Since the DF interface already differentiates between pre-made party and random one, I'd suggest it'd be implemented so that you only see the real time parse for the whole party in pre-made party. That way those who want to better themselves and/or help FC mates can do runs for that purpose. Or any sort of raid statics would see whole group performance. However, when being in random DF one would only see their personal parse real time, and only exiting the dungeon would be shown the averages of other party members. That way they could still compare themselves to the others for learning purpose but at that point there'd be no real issue about kicking/harassing due parse since the party has fizzled.

[Erim-Nelhah]

How about a middle ground, between personal parsers and group ones. Since the DF interface already differentiates between pre-made party and random one

The interface does, but I don't think the instance server differentiates at all. Basically, based on what I've seen when entering an instance with a full party, when you queue up in DF, your current party gets sent to the matchmaking system to fill any open slots (even if you don't have any). Once your party is full, the matchmaking system then queues everyone in the party into the instance queue as a group, and the group is then sent to the instance. Once in the instance, the instance server puts everyone into a new "instance" party with a random leader (you can verify this by entering with a full party a few times and watching who becomes leader once you're in the instance). As far as I can tell, the instance server is never told whether you're a preformed group or not.

I'd suggest it'd be implemented so that you only see the real time parse for the whole party in pre-made party. That way those who want to better themselves and/or help FC mates can do runs for that purpose. Or any sort of raid statics would see whole group performance. However, when being in random DF one would only see their personal parse real time, and only exiting the dungeon would be shown the averages of other party members. That way they could still compare themselves to the others for learning purpose but at that point there'd be no real issue about kicking/harassing due parse since the party has fizzled.

With the above in mind, this may not be feasible to implement. The alternative of an opt-in party parse is better in almost all cases anyway, since it allows someone in a DF pug that's wiping to enrages to request everyone's parse so that if it's a single weak player they can be helped to improve or, if necessary, removed from the group (and an otherwise good group not be forced to abandon).

--Erim Nelhah

[Arkenne]

I wont say the parse number is much of a viability, but once the fight ends I tend to look at those odd numbers with more detail...
Like opening their skill usage... I've seen horrible things...

NINs using no DoTs in Alex runs...
BRDs using Windbite 134 times while Heavy Shot was used once in an A3 run...
MNKs hitting no positionals...

Yes the parser number might be too big a thing to look at, but if you take some time to analize their fight... some things really get... well you might get eye cancer if you are lucky.


I've also been on the other side of the coin tho, people judging others for the wipe based on parsing numbers... like this one WAR which after wipe was all "oh WAR parsing higher than the DPS how sad" in an A2 run where he didn't notice that the DPS were dying at mobs he was supposed to be tanking and one of those dead-and-res DPSes jumped on the gobbie so of course their DPS was going to drop...

[Kabooa]

This is still going.

As long as hard enrages exist based on killing something before a time limit expires, you need the ability to objectively look at the numbers you're putting out. This isn't up for debate. The potency system is certainly a decent way to 'eyeball' something via potency/gcd, but you can have no way of knowing for certain that ABC > BCA > CAB without the data.

All that parsing / meters do is take that data and put it in an easy to read format of Damage Dealt / Time in Combat.

You want it as a personal parser? Fine, go for it.
You want it as a public opt-in parser? Fine, go for it.
You want it a training dummy that'll give you a report after you leave combat with it? Fine, go for it.

But it needs to exist within the game because console players cannot access third party Parsers without someone else's aid. When the tool is that vital, not having it openly available to the player within the game itself is inexcusable.